Treadle Hammer

J

Jason Fry

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
3,079
I was just gifted a treadle hammer. Needs tweaking, as the current springs aren't strong enough to lift the head. I'm thinking I may end up moving the head out a little as well, to strike more squarely on the anvil. Having only had a hand hammer before, I'm thinking things are about to get interesting around the forge :)

Any ideas or suggestions? I'm thinking some kind of fullering dies, or at least a spring fuller. I'd like to change the rinky-dink base out for a piece of plate if I can find one.

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im curious to know whats up with the faces mating up so poorly. Was it measured wrong when built or is there some feature or purpose that i am missing?
 
Yeah, the price is right for sure. The faces not matching is a bit of a problem I'll need to fix. So far I've seen (in my head) three possible fixes. One, I could cut off the hinge bracket and add a spacer to bring the head out further. Two, I could cut the bracket and move it down, so that the arc of the hammer is a little different. Seems simpler, but I'll also have to adjust the linkage to make it work that way. Three, I could go nuts and rebuild the top half into an inline, or even modify the whole thing into a Rusty/Crusty power hammer arrangement.

Either way, I see Damascus in my future :)
 
That style hammer is generally designed so that the dies
match up when the arms are parallel the the base........that one is a
bit of a puzzle though, as the design looks like the dies will need to be
close to foot apart...when lined up front-to-rear and side-to-side.
Could be that that hammer was designed for a special purpose..?

The spring tension can be adjusted by moving the clamp on the lower arm closer to
the head.
 
Yeah not sure about the hammer's origins beyond the guy I got it from. The mechanics of it are fairly simple. I'll just have to cut and weld and tinker, but it shouldn't be super crazy hard to get it right with a little bit of effort.

Just had a brain flash... The anvil post is just square tube, empty, with a piece of 1/2" plate on top. One possible solution would be to get a 9 or 10" long piece of 3 or 4 inch round or solid and increase the height of the anvil. This would put my striking alignment better, and would also add mass to the anvil post.
 
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Just scored some 1 3/4 square 4140, ought to make some good dies. Also got a welder deal lined up, shouldn't be long till I have this thing smashing cans like a pro :)
 
I looks like they shortened the yellow arms to bring back the can and allow for more weight. Trying to figure out the physics it looks like the further to flush you move the can (die area) the more powerful those springs are going to have to be.

That said how much weight do you think you will be able to put in what I'm calling the can Jason?

When you get it up and running post a video. I've seen photos but never seen one in action!
 
Yeah, looks like the yellow arms would be better a little longer. I'm going to try and raise the anvil height first, although it may limit my striking power, not sure yet. I'm sure this will be a learning journey with multiple revisions before I'm done.
 
I messed with it some today. By basically doubling the springs, I got the spring tension high enough to keep the head up. Smashed some stuff for fun, but it only gets about 1 1/2" contact. I also figured out that the head is directly above the anvil when there's about 9 inches of clearance. I'm thinking of building some top and bottom dies to take up part of the gap for more precise striking. It's not heavy enough, lots of wobbling and noise. I plan to weld it to a piece of plate, and to fill the anvil and back tube with sand to deaden the noise and add weight. The welder deal is taking forever, and the 4140 guy got delayed by family illness. Some day....
 
Got the 4140 in and the dies ground out. Still need to HT them and weld them to some plate, then rig the hammer to take them. Maybe by the time it's too hot to work outside, I'll have it all finished out.
 
That looks like one of the treadle hammers that Jere Kirkpatrick makes/made. He has some videos available on building and running them: http://www.jerekirkpatrick.com/videos.html

I have no experience running a treadle hammer, and the ones I've watched being used have been the inline designs, but I know they are largely used with hand-held tooling. So the ones like this where the heads swing in an arc are set to be lined up with the anvil at a height that would accommodate a top tool. You might also ask about this over on Iforgeiron in their hammer section.

As far as the dies go, you need to pre-heat at 400 degrees, weld, then post-heat. Have the dies already heat treated beforehand. If you don't pre-and-post heat, the 4140 will tend to crack at the weld.
 
Thanks for the tip on the 4140 welding, James! I agree, seems to be designed for top tools. I may end up using it that way, but I'd rather set it up more like a foot-powered power hammer :)
 
Raising the anvil height with the additional chunk of steel like you mentioned above may be your simplest approach to doing that. I think I'd make it removable so it can return to being used as originally designed.
 
Here is my take on this:

The treadle hammer was likely used for doing decorative metal work. They chase veins on leaves and shape roses, etc. with punches and curved bottom dies. It requires about 9" clearance to do this. This is one of the most common uses for treadle hammers.

To solve the problem you have two options. Either get longer leaf springs to bring the dies into alignment with about 3" opening clearance ( to allow for dies and work), or add a 5-6" riser block of 4140 on the bottom die.
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
To solve the problem you have two options. Either get longer leaf springs to bring the dies into alignment with about 3" opening clearance ( to allow for dies and work), or add a 5-6" riser block of 4140 on the bottom die.
Click to expand...

I've reached the same conclusion, and also plan to make the dies removable. I have one set already in the works, with another idea or two in mind as well. With the set I'm building now, I'll have dies that are roughly 2" deep, and will total about 5" high plus the thickness of the stock I'm working. That should get me plenty high for the alignment to be good without having to structurally modify the hammer itself.
 
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