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TriAx Sharpener - Sharpmaker on Steroids!!
- Thread starter QuietOned
- Start date
I've never seen one before. Here are some thoughts just based on the photo:
I see the knife is held in a guide. That's different than the sharpmaker. The guide would insure a vertical stroke and would insure the blade edge is parallel to the stone surface. With round crock sticks or with the edges of the sharpmaker triangle rods, this is not an issue. Guides that grip the knife can be tricky because of the difficulty in making a solid connection to all the possible spine shapes and sizes.
The stones are mounted as opposed to the Sharpmaker's ceramic stones which are free standing. The mounted method would give more flexibility in stone types (although I didn't see any stone specs listed). Sharpmaker is limited to ceramics because the free standing approach works best with stones that don't wear too quickly. The Sharpmaker ceramics work well, but I think the mounted waterstones like the EdgePro are clearly better.
Sharpmaker bevel angles are limited to two, the TriAx looks fully adjustable.
I see the knife is held in a guide. That's different than the sharpmaker. The guide would insure a vertical stroke and would insure the blade edge is parallel to the stone surface. With round crock sticks or with the edges of the sharpmaker triangle rods, this is not an issue. Guides that grip the knife can be tricky because of the difficulty in making a solid connection to all the possible spine shapes and sizes.
The stones are mounted as opposed to the Sharpmaker's ceramic stones which are free standing. The mounted method would give more flexibility in stone types (although I didn't see any stone specs listed). Sharpmaker is limited to ceramics because the free standing approach works best with stones that don't wear too quickly. The Sharpmaker ceramics work well, but I think the mounted waterstones like the EdgePro are clearly better.
Sharpmaker bevel angles are limited to two, the TriAx looks fully adjustable.
- Joined
- May 20, 2007
- Messages
- 4
Just read yalls post about our TriAx and wanted to say hello to everyone. Those are good points you raised about our sharpener. We offer the TriAx at 17 and 22 degree angles. The blade holder works well with any knife except real small blades, and those with thumb pins for opening the blades. Please ask us anything we want to hear for the knife community so we can make our product the best for yall.
Brian Presgrove
Brian Presgrove
- Joined
- May 20, 2007
- Messages
- 4
With the Lanskey and Gatco you must do a couple of steps before you start to sharpen your knife on either side. You must secure the blade with a screw type clamp that secures the blade in place, and then you loosen the blade to flip it over on the opposite side and secure it by tightening the clamp. You then must use the proper guide rod placement for the stones and then you must remember how many strokes were used on each side of the blade to get uniformity of the edge.
With the TriAx you dont have to worry about unscrewing any clamps or guide rod placements. You simply put the knife in the blade clamp and with thumb pressure you secure the blade in place. Then your off and running with sharpening your blade. You dont have to count how many times you have sharpened a side because of the design of the Triax.
With the TriAx you dont have to worry about unscrewing any clamps or guide rod placements. You simply put the knife in the blade clamp and with thumb pressure you secure the blade in place. Then your off and running with sharpening your blade. You dont have to count how many times you have sharpened a side because of the design of the Triax.
I don't want to come off like I'm knocking your product - since I haven't even seen it. But, I'd be concerned about all those arms and the amount of play the joints introduce. If the arms wiggle a lot, it's going to be hard to get a flat grind.
Maybe you can post a training video on your site. That's what sold me on the Gatco. I was able to see how it works, which gave me some confidence that I could use the sharpener.
Maybe you can post a training video on your site. That's what sold me on the Gatco. I was able to see how it works, which gave me some confidence that I could use the sharpener.
We are working on a video currently and we will post it on our web site.
Let me add that the concept of TriAx was based on doing the opposite of all the existing blade clamp. Before TriAx, they all clamped the blade in place (or held it in place like the Apex) then stroked a single stone several times on one side of the blade. You then had to partially dismantle it, flip the blade over, then make the same strokes on the other side of the blade.
It did the job but it was awkward and the edge came awfully close to you knuckles.
TriAx does the opposite. The stones are fixed and the blade is moved. You can move the blade up and down, in and out, and side to side. The blade holder just won't you to change the angle between the blade and the stones. Sharpening an average knife will take 30 to 45 seconds.
As far as wiggle, there is none. However, it's just like everthing else, if you apply enough force, something will give.
Let me add that the concept of TriAx was based on doing the opposite of all the existing blade clamp. Before TriAx, they all clamped the blade in place (or held it in place like the Apex) then stroked a single stone several times on one side of the blade. You then had to partially dismantle it, flip the blade over, then make the same strokes on the other side of the blade.
It did the job but it was awkward and the edge came awfully close to you knuckles.
TriAx does the opposite. The stones are fixed and the blade is moved. You can move the blade up and down, in and out, and side to side. The blade holder just won't you to change the angle between the blade and the stones. Sharpening an average knife will take 30 to 45 seconds.
As far as wiggle, there is none. However, it's just like everthing else, if you apply enough force, something will give.
I'm looking forward to seeing the video.
Can you tell me how the blade is grasped? The knife that I sharpen is deeply hollow ground and is difficult to "clamp". All you grasp is the outer lip of the blade spine.
Also, will you have any dealers? I would like to see this in action.
Thanks
Can you tell me how the blade is grasped? The knife that I sharpen is deeply hollow ground and is difficult to "clamp". All you grasp is the outer lip of the blade spine.
Also, will you have any dealers? I would like to see this in action.
Thanks
I am working on a pdf of a cross section of the blade holder. When I get it on the board you can see that TriAx holds the blade at four points, 2 at the lip of the spine and 2 approximately 3/4" down and on opposite sides of the blade. You'll see it soon.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
Hi Lineofdavid, you said that, "We offer the TriAx at 17 and 22 degree angles". Would that be two separate models or is there one type of TriAx that can be switched between 17 and 22 degree modes?
Part of the innovation of the design is that extra axis of freedom in the hone mounts. If you are using flat hones they can pivot on their long axiis to follow blade curvature. That is a very good feature, particularly for diamond hones. If you don't hone straight along a diamond hone surface you will get a rougher edge finish and you will tend to scrape diamonds off the hone.
Another innovation is that quick attach/detach blade clamp. With this setup you can do optimal right/left side honing strokes at a precise angle in a hurry. With the diamond and ceramic hone combination this unit could really be the only honing system that some users need (assuming that they don't use serrated blades).
The big problem that I see is the 17 and 22 degree angle settings. Those are much too obtuse to produce optimal edges. With the honing effectiveness of the diamond hones I would prefer something like 10 and 15 degrees. Even that would frustrate me if I used the clamp. I would really like a setup with 8 and 12 degrees. If I had one I would typically not use the clamp. It is really overkill. There is no big need to be that precise in your honing (or convex edges wouldn't work). I would probably remove the clamping mechanism and just use the unit like any other V-style setup. That would let me tilt the blade or tilt the base to get angles more to my liking.
Anyway I think that this is a rather ingenious design that will suit the expectations of the public. The big problem is the price. For that money I could get a belt sander and a ceramic V-rod system and achieve 10x the productivity (oh yeh, I already did that). For example I sharpened about 40 kitchen knives on Friday night using a belt sander and a V-rod system. It took me a couple minutes per knife. I must admit my way didn't look as pretty as this system will produce, but they were probably just as sharp.
Part of the innovation of the design is that extra axis of freedom in the hone mounts. If you are using flat hones they can pivot on their long axiis to follow blade curvature. That is a very good feature, particularly for diamond hones. If you don't hone straight along a diamond hone surface you will get a rougher edge finish and you will tend to scrape diamonds off the hone.
Another innovation is that quick attach/detach blade clamp. With this setup you can do optimal right/left side honing strokes at a precise angle in a hurry. With the diamond and ceramic hone combination this unit could really be the only honing system that some users need (assuming that they don't use serrated blades).
The big problem that I see is the 17 and 22 degree angle settings. Those are much too obtuse to produce optimal edges. With the honing effectiveness of the diamond hones I would prefer something like 10 and 15 degrees. Even that would frustrate me if I used the clamp. I would really like a setup with 8 and 12 degrees. If I had one I would typically not use the clamp. It is really overkill. There is no big need to be that precise in your honing (or convex edges wouldn't work). I would probably remove the clamping mechanism and just use the unit like any other V-style setup. That would let me tilt the blade or tilt the base to get angles more to my liking.
Anyway I think that this is a rather ingenious design that will suit the expectations of the public. The big problem is the price. For that money I could get a belt sander and a ceramic V-rod system and achieve 10x the productivity (oh yeh, I already did that). For example I sharpened about 40 kitchen knives on Friday night using a belt sander and a V-rod system. It took me a couple minutes per knife. I must admit my way didn't look as pretty as this system will produce, but they were probably just as sharp.
For me only two issues. I don't like fixed angles and I don't like those particular angles. I also don't like diamond abrasives. They wear down fairly quickly and lose their bite. Yes, they last nearly forever but they only cut efficiently for a relatively short time and are expensive to replace. Waterstones cut nearly as quickly out of the box and continue to cut the same way as long as they are lapped flat. They wear quickly but are fairly cheap to replace.
The Edgepro at around the same price is a better solution in my opinion. It has unlimited angles and uses waterstones. I cut my Japanese kitchen knives at between 12 and 15 degrees depending on steel hardness which runs from around RC59 to RC65. This unit would dull my kitchen knives. It would be fine for my sporting knives which generally have softer blades and more obtuse angles than the kitchen knives, I think, but so is the Edgepro.
It is an interesting design. Perhaps it just needs to have the V angle continuously adjustable with markers like the Edgepro and some waterstones as an option. As a note to the manufacturer, making a wide variety of stones available will continue the relationship with the customer and provide additional sales into the future. I've certainly spent more money on Edgepro stones than I have for my Apex unit over the years.
The Edgepro at around the same price is a better solution in my opinion. It has unlimited angles and uses waterstones. I cut my Japanese kitchen knives at between 12 and 15 degrees depending on steel hardness which runs from around RC59 to RC65. This unit would dull my kitchen knives. It would be fine for my sporting knives which generally have softer blades and more obtuse angles than the kitchen knives, I think, but so is the Edgepro.
It is an interesting design. Perhaps it just needs to have the V angle continuously adjustable with markers like the Edgepro and some waterstones as an option. As a note to the manufacturer, making a wide variety of stones available will continue the relationship with the customer and provide additional sales into the future. I've certainly spent more money on Edgepro stones than I have for my Apex unit over the years.
This is a front view of the blade holder. You can see how the blade position is controled at 4 points. Using the upper inverted V, each time the blade is slid in place, the top blade spline is guided back to the exact same place.
Then the 2 lower points align the blade exactly vertical. With all 4 control points, it is a snap to place the blade in the holder over and over again to the exact same position.
S. Brock Presgrove, PE
Then the 2 lower points align the blade exactly vertical. With all 4 control points, it is a snap to place the blade in the holder over and over again to the exact same position.
S. Brock Presgrove, PE
Ingenuity and competition in the sharpener field is good for the knife consumer. A sharpening device: as quick to set up as a bench stone, precise within a degree, infinitely adjustable angle, ergonomic, vast abrasive selection, functional with any knife design, and inexpensive would be perfect. The triax has 3.5 of these, the edge pro has 3.5 (4 if you are ambidextrous), and the bladesharpener has 4.5...with various degrees of execution and importance of each characteristic ignored.
The 2 angle choices takes the triax out of competition with the bladesharpener and edgepro. Perhaps a twist lock collet (with some bar markings) in place of the pin and hole method would give the triax more adjustability. This simple addition alone would make the triax a much more appealing contender.
A second simple addition would be a set of plates that can be used with abrasive sheeting. I had a set made up for my bladesharpener that allows me to use any abrasive sheet under the sun. However, the blade would have to drawn up instead of being pushed down in order to avoid cutting the abrasive. Leather or stiff foam could even be used to strop and/or sharpen convex edges. It might be a good idea to make these plates a little wider since they wont benefit from the aggressiveness of the diamond.
How much does a thumbstud get in the way?
These two low cost additions might liberate $125 from my wallet. But the size of the unit and stones might make sharpening a Dogfather or similar knife an unattractive proposition. As it stands the device seems like an elaborate and expensive set of crock sticks.
The 2 angle choices takes the triax out of competition with the bladesharpener and edgepro. Perhaps a twist lock collet (with some bar markings) in place of the pin and hole method would give the triax more adjustability. This simple addition alone would make the triax a much more appealing contender.
A second simple addition would be a set of plates that can be used with abrasive sheeting. I had a set made up for my bladesharpener that allows me to use any abrasive sheet under the sun. However, the blade would have to drawn up instead of being pushed down in order to avoid cutting the abrasive. Leather or stiff foam could even be used to strop and/or sharpen convex edges. It might be a good idea to make these plates a little wider since they wont benefit from the aggressiveness of the diamond.
How much does a thumbstud get in the way?
These two low cost additions might liberate $125 from my wallet. But the size of the unit and stones might make sharpening a Dogfather or similar knife an unattractive proposition. As it stands the device seems like an elaborate and expensive set of crock sticks.
There will be a wide selection of stones in the new future. There will also be an attachment to the horizontal rod which will allow the angle to extend out to 30 degrees.
For a few special orders we have added holes to the horizontal rod to take it down as narrow as 10 degrees.
Thumbstuds can be handled on large knives.
As far as crock sticks....I'll accept that if you will agree that a bladesharpener is an elaborate and expensive RazorEdge (I expect you won't).
For a few special orders we have added holes to the horizontal rod to take it down as narrow as 10 degrees.
Thumbstuds can be handled on large knives.
As far as crock sticks....I'll accept that if you will agree that a bladesharpener is an elaborate and expensive RazorEdge (I expect you won't).
Excellent, any idea on pricing for extra stones? Extra angles are certainly not a bad thing.
So you know the device can handle those narrow angles. How about those twist lock collets instead of pins
. How small can it go?
I'll agree to that. Its also an elaborate and expensive lansky. However, It allows near infinite angle adjustment, the use of any abrasive product you can put on the end of a rod, and the t-bar gives you a practical abrasive width of ~12 inches. But, the clamp is finicky and the whole setup is far from being lightweight and compact.
The triax is indeed a crock stick design just the same as the sharpmaker is. The bulk of the triax is designed to take out the human error and it looks like it may do that very well. I guess its all about what market you are going after. The triax undoubtedly will make a very sharp edge. But one size fits all doesnt cut it for some folks. (my 10" chopper has a 34deg included edge and my shun chefs knife has a ~20deg included edge)
Anyone interested in a pass around?