Triggernometry. The center mass 'myth'?

kdstrick

kdstrick

Joined
May 27, 2007
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This is a thought provoking article I thought you guys might appreciate.

In short, the author has accumulated data on actual shootings and the results may shock you.

Here is a brief excerpt:

"I have accumulated confirmed incidents in which people have been shot “center mass” up to 55 times with 9mm JHP ammunition (the subject was hit 106 times, but 55 of those hits were ruled by the coroner to be each lethal in and of themselves) before he went down. During training at the FBI Academy we were told of a case in which agents shot a bank robber 65 times with 9mm, .223 and 00 buckshot – he survived! These are not rare cases. The happen quite often."

There is no magic bullet, no magic caliber...

Another excerpt:

"We tell our military folks to be prepared to hit an enemy fighter from 3-7 times with 5.56 ball, traveling at over 3,000 feet per second. This approach sometimes worked, but I know of several cases where it has not, even “center mass.”
With handguns, and with expanding bullets, it is even more unpredictable, but through years of study I have developed a general formula, subject to the above mentioned unpredictable circumstances."



  • 2-3 hits with a .45
  • 4-6 with a .40
  • 5-8 with a 9mm

Check it all out at this link: Also see the embedded video... pretty impressive shooting. :thumbup:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-center-mass-myth-and-ending-a-gunfight-triggernometry/



.
 
Nice article thank you for sharing.

Id like to see what a .460 S&W Magnum does to a bad guy. That is one wicked load.
 
If the 50 doesn't work you can always go get one of these :D

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wow that's just crazy! I d love to see a video of that...surely there was no projectile cause the barrel isn't strapped down.

Id think the recoil alone would have killed the guy:D

maybe a light load and a ton of weight too, or as my dad would say " He's shooting blanks";)
 
Here is the vid :D He is not shooting blanks .


[video=youtube;16SIvVKtuks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16SIvVKtuks[/video]
 
Higginbotham has been in the firearms arena for quite awhile.

BOSS
 
I asked a friend in the Corvallis Police Department "How many holes in the bad guy before I get into trouble?"

Her reply:

"As long as it's obviously self-defense, we'll only start asking the hard questions when there are a bunch of holes in the floor beneathe the lifeless body. You can shoot as many times as it takes to end the threat, and I'll tell ya, that'll be more times than the movies would have you believe."
 
Gentleman, it is important to remember that the old "center mass" thing is used not because it works every time, but because it is the largest chunk of body you can aim for. The ONLY shot that can guarantee instant incapacitation is one that destroys the central nervous system, and while center mass hits can have this result it is not a guarantee or high probability. Anything other than a CNS hit and it is a crap shoot as to just what result you will get out of it.

I gotta side with Gunfixrjoe on this, more bullet's is one solution to this problem. You don't know how many you will need, so my baseline recommendation would be at least 50 rds. for EDC and 150 rds. if military/police. It is amazing how many people go to the trouble of carrying a pistol, then refuse to carry a spare magazine (or three..... ;) ) thinking they won't need more than what's in the gun. I've got news for these types, you won't know how many BB's you'll need until the fight is over. Nobody ever survived a gunfight wishing they had brought less ammo, at least not that I am aware of..... ;)

IMO though, the right answer is to start targeting the head once you've established that the center mass hits aren't effective. With body armor becoming more common you can definitely NEVER assume a center mass hit will get the job done. If I am within close range (say up to 20 ft.) the head shot will be my default and would only switch to aiming center mass if the distance increased. There isn't an animal on the planet that won't tend to leave you alone if you shoot it in the face enough times.

Imagine an elephant hunter, they typically carry a VERY large caliber double barrel rifle. You'd think they'd be fine just shooting it center mass right? Wrong, the shot of choice is always the brain stem. For what it's worth, I consider elephants one of the most dangerous game on the planet (if not the most).

Cheers!
 
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aaaa_cccc said:
Gentleman, it is important to remember that the old "center mass" thing is used not because it works every time, but because it is the largest chunk of body you can aim for. The ONLY shot that can guarantee instant incapacitation is one that destroys the central nervous system, and while center mass hits can have this result it is not a guarantee or high probability. Anything other than a CNS hit and it is a crap shoot as to just what result you will get out of it.

I gotta side with Gunfixrjoe on this, more bullet's is one solution to this problem. You don't know how many you will need, so my baseline recommendation would be at least 50 rds. for EDC and 150 rds. if military/police. It is amazing how many people go to the trouble of carrying a pistol, then refuse to carry a spare magazine (or three..... ;) ) thinking they won't need more than what's in the gun. I've got news for these types, you won't know how many BB's you'll need until the fight is over. Nobody ever survived a gunfight wishing they had brought less ammo, at least not that I am aware of..... ;)

IMO though, the right answer is to start targeting the head once you've established that the center mass hits aren't effective. With body armor becoming more common you can definitely NEVER assume a center mass hit will get the job done. If I am within close range (say up to 20 ft.) the head shot will be my default and would only switch to aiming center mass if the distance increased. There isn't an animal on the planet that won't tend to leave you alone if you shoot it in the face enough times.

Imagine an elephant hunter, they typically carry a VERY large caliber double barrel rifle. You'd think they'd be fine just shooting it center mass right? Wrong, the shot of choice is always the brain stem. For what it's worth, I consider elephants one of the most dangerous game on the planet (if not the most).

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Let us not forget Cape Buffaloes... :eek: :D
 
Really good article. Thanks for sharing. As for me I have been training for "two to the chest, one to the head, repeat". Hopefully I never need to use it.

Garth
 
Garth Reckner said:
Really good article. Thanks for sharing. As for me I have been training for "two to the chest, one to the head, repeat". Hopefully I never need to use it.

Garth
Click to expand...

This is called a "failure to stop" drill or a "Mozambique" drill. It's pretty much all I practice at the local indoor range.
 
Yes...centre mass theory = biggest target, I am not sure where the argument about why we shoot "centre mass" got to be about this being the most effective location to hit, as opposed to the place we CAN hit when the adrenaline dump has kicked in and our fine motor skills have deteriorated and we are trying desperately not to evacuate out bowls there and then…. ;) If one needs to put a people out for the count ASAP it is the brain steam that needs to be hit.

Yes…indeed Cape Buffalo are apparently harder to put on the ground than Elephant, and a damn sight more ornery when riled. The down side to a large calibre double rifle is that there are very few folks who shoot them well, many think there are however the done thing for Africa. As some may recall I am off there next year and talking to my mates here still in the PH game, the vast majority of guides breath a sigh of relief when the client arrives with about anything other than a double rifle. Power certainly does not make up for shot placement. One of the more famous European professional elephant cullers relied upon a 6.5x55 as it has great penetration and he was able to put the bullet just where he wanted them. Out of interest, I am taking my 40 year old .375H&H (got it in ’83 myself) as I have spent enough time hunting rabbits with it to know that I am able to hit small targets with it over and over.
 
Bowman1911 said:
This is called a "failure to stop" drill or a "Mozambique" drill. It's pretty much all I practice at the local indoor range.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, and will add "With a half second pause, dropping back to center mass target to assess the need to repeat the "Mozambique" drill with my 1911".
My dad always said "Don't assume because you shot the critter it's dead!" Advice to stay alive by! ;)
 
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