Triple quench?

The subject and the very short post tells me that you read something on the matter and probably were presented an opinion on one side of the topic already.

Asking this here like this is only going to get you other opinions, likely both for and against the subject. What purpose does that serve? Some will say there is a benefit and others will say there is no benefit. It seems likely that you knew that already.

It's borderline picking an argument, in my opinion. You really didn't give anything in the way of specifics to warrant a legitimate question.

Why not ask a specific question about a specific instance with specific parameters and materials. Or better yet, if you're really curious, why not test this out for yourself in your shop with your tools? Then you'll know for sure if there is any benefit from it TO YOU and YOUR METHODS.

It may benefit some and others, not so much. All your going to get here on the subject is varied opinions. Which doesn't help you out with YOUR methods at all, unless you're willing to just take someone else's word as gospel truth, no matter which side of the question you're on.
 
"You can triple stamp a double stamp"
 
You should be able to know what each operation is doing !! There is reduction in retained austenite .But you have the " Law of diminishing returns " ,that is each time you do it you gain less. Austenite is not necessarily all bad ! The second thing is that as you reduce grain size you change hardenability - working against you ! So three is a common number to use.Do you need that or more ? or less ?
 
I have absolutely no opinion on it. That's why I asked the question hoping to get some metallurgy theory from more knowledgeable people so at least I could form a better understanding. I find the more I learn the more questions I have. No reason to get defensive. I've spent a lot of time and money recently trying to learn how to get a good heat treat and just wondering if it was a myth or not because doing a search didn't reveal anything.
 
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So each quench works towards reducing grain size but decreases hardening ability. Triple quench for a tougher knife single for more hardness. I'm not confident I understood, sorry. If the general consensus is it has a purpose dependant on what you want to achieve I'll try it out on W2 and share the results.
 
The only difference I found with 52100 and 5160 between triple and single quench was at the same hardness, the triple was a little easier to sharpen. I used to think that was worth the extra foolery, but no mas.
 
I will be using Aldos W2 and normalizing it at 1650f 20min 1500f 20min 1350f 20min. Using a evenheat oven. Quenching in parks 50. Would this condition be worth giving it a try? I would just try it but I'm low on steel and want to give my father the best knife I can do.
 
My understanding is that only your first high temp needs a soak time. Your 1500 and 1350 only need to reach that temp throughout.
 
5160 oil quench 2-3 secs (Unless you have flash over) then straight into some warm water edge quench ea time
temper and 24hrs in the freezer. Fast quench oil from McMaster Carr works great and you can buy it by the gallon
Practice your technique, temps and times to get the results you want
Triple quench "Don't bother" IMO
 
I am the one who started the big flare up over this subject many years ago. It has lead to many long discussions and threads in this and other forums, as well as at seminars.
The short synopsis of it all is that Ed Fowler does a Triple Quench and claims certain gains from it. Metallurgical bladesmiths claim normalization is the better way to get those results. It got out of hand between the two camps. We have all sort of agreed to disagree, and in the end most folks will say that the end result is roughly the same ... if done right.

The three quenches causes nucleation and makes places for new and finer grain. The normalization cycles distribute the alloying and gets the grain ready for the final quench.

My final comment is that learning what is going on in the steel will allow you to make decisions about how to harden any steel to its best advantage. Knowing the exact chemistry of the steel, and what condition it is in, is just as important. So, read up on metallurgy and learn about the phases and structures that we are dealing with. Learn about what happens as the steel heats and cools. Buy known steel from a knife making supplier or a steel supplier who sells to knifemakers. Get the specs of the steel and keep it on file. ( Label all your steel )

If you want more on the subject, send me an email or PM.
 
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Stacy, when you refer to normalization, I'm assuming that you mean the standard "above critical, cool to black- critical, cool to black- subcritical, cool to black and quench" thermal cycling routine? Is that correct?
 
Yes. There are several ways to do it, and that is one of them.

All the treatment is designed to do is "normalize" the steel to an unstressed, pearlitic or martensitic state with full distribution of alloying. The final austenitization can then make the desired martensite to it's fullest advantage.
 
There is currently a debate on this subject in Blade magazine between 2 knife makers in the reader response section. It started out as criticism of the Forged in Fire show on the History Channel. But like was mentioned all you'll get is opinions. Is it better or just different?
 
I think you will have a difficult time Hardening most steel with a 1350f quench. Especially Aldo's W2.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your temps you intend to quench at.
 
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