Trouble Sharpening a 10YO Sabatier Kitchen Knife

peanutaxis said:
Good points in second paragraph. Makes sense.

Don't think I agree with the first. I am using a Sharpal 325/1200 - a continuously encrusted diamond plate. Even on the 325 side the diamond particles are far too close together for the blade to ever touch the substrate. If I am right your argument still works, it's just that the blade is hitting the far harder diamond!
If we are talking a diamond plate with grouped diamonds like an Atoma stone - I would think that to get your blade to hit the substrate your error in angle would have to be so huge that it would never happen. Further, if the blade ever did hit the substrate during a stroke, your concern would not be the apex hitting the substrate but with the far harder raised diamonds rapidly approaching the apex!

I am absolutely going to take your advice and use FEATHER-light strokes on my diamond from now on. I plan to also drag the apex at 90° across a dowel as a proof-test; to drag any fatigued metal off the apex. This way I am testing and getting immediate feedback on my success or otherwise.
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What I'm getting at is, when the edge contacts the diamond abrasive, it cuts the steel only to the shallow depth of the exposed abrasive grains. But any pressure exerted beyond that will just roll the apex, due to the unforgiving base under the abrasive. Angle does make a difference - that's why I emphasized keeping the bevels as flush to the hone as possible.
 
SharpBits said:
Don't European chef knife makers expect their knives to be steeled frequently instead of sharpened? Steeling is just burr alignment, is it not? If so, diamond plates may very well be the worst choice for softer European knife steels.
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I recently saw some electron microscope pics of bevels that had been steeled with a smooth steel. Not only can they realign the apex but It does indeed abrade the steel. Certainly nothing like the knife destroying ridges on mainstream steels, but it can redress an apex to improve sharpness as measured by a BESS.
A couple years ago I tested the result of steeling with a smooth steel. The steel improved all scores on a BESS. Some up to 80 points. The knives tested were kitchen knives that are maintained frequently. ( After steeling with a smooth steel I then stropped on a hanging undressed leather strop which further improved the BESS scores.)

This is kinda off topic but if you have never looked at a bevel with a microscope after steeling with a ridged steel you should. I will never use that on my knives… it really tears up that bevel. Kinda like a chainsaw.
 
I've never used a steel, smooth or otherwise. To be honest, the motions needed to use one properly with a large knife sort of frighten me. 😮😁
 
I recall seeing an interesting article years ago about how the pressure of a smooth steel on the tiny area of a edge is so immense that it effects plastic deformation of the edge, not just nudging the edge into alignment but actually squashing & re-molding the metal
 
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fishface5 said:
I recall seeing an interesting article years ago about how the pressure of a smooth steel on the tiny area of a edge is so immense that it effects plastic deformation of the edge, not just nudging the edge into alignment but actually squashing & re-molding the metal
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I would love to see that article... when I steel I don't use much pressure at all.
I'll poke around to see if I can find it.
Al

Edit: It looks like steeling is another rabbit hole.
 
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A good grooved steel is basically a fine file with the teeth running perpendicular to the length. As they become gradually magnetized through use it's common to see metal fines begin building up on the tip. Steeling is not the theoretical ideal when it comes to creating long-lasting edges, but they are used in circumstances where expediency and ease of cleaning are of utmost importance. Dirty meat-cutting blades do not clog a steel in any meaningful way like they can with conventional abrasive approaches, needing little more than a wipe with a cloth to remove any physical debris in the grooves, and it does restore edges to "good enough" serviceable edges in seconds whenever dulling occurs. But if you compare edges from steels against ones made via best-practice abrasive honing they'll fail early due to the fatigue in the edge metal.
 
Having worked on meat boning and kill floor operations I can testify that smooth steels work very well.I can tell you that you can keep knives sharp for at least half a shift of continuous automated line work.I know longer use steels not because they don't work but my kitchen duties are not that demanding.In that enviroment nothing nothing else is practical.
 
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