trouble with a quench

B

bill may

Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
70
I have been working on a file knife and I can not get this steel harden in a oil quench.
I'm more than likely wrong but I believe that a file is 01 tool steel and it could be hardened
properly in canola oil . I'm bringing the steel to a non-magnetic heat and holding the knife in the oil
to the count of ten I've tried plunging it twice to the same count ,I have left in the oil till it cooled
and still when I try my Rockwell files I can scratch it. am I wrong about my oil?
 
How long after the quench are you testing the hardness? Do you know the brand of file it is? it's rather unlikely that it is 01 but it should harden.
 
Doubt its O1.

I'll just say it, since someone else will otherwise: Go ahead and order some 1084, if you don't have a controlled heat source.
 
It's probably not O-1.......more likely 1095 or similar, and requires a higher temp ( 1500-1525f) and
a bit of a soak at temp.
Nonmagnetic would be about 110F shy of that.
 
How warm is your oil before quench? What brand is the file? Are you agitating during quench?
 
I'm testing it after it cools. it's a nicholson file. I thought about a water quench but I'm afraid it will crack
I don't know maybe a air cool might work. And to answer Nick I have a good gas forge and the reason I'm using a file
is the friend I'm giving it to wants a file knife and if you know good source of 1084 at 3/16 thick that isn't always sold out
I would be glad to know that. thanks for the help
 
There will be a soft layer! It may have hardened. There is a thin layer of decarb, that is a layer that the carbon is burned out of. Once you get to clean steel does your files still bite?
 
If it isn't a decarb layer, "holding it in the oil" might be the issue. It was asked, but are you agitating in the oil, or just holding it still?
 
Man lots of good answers let me try to get to everyone if I can Russ I don't have a temp gage on my gas forge but it will get the metal
to a bright pink color. I do have a coal forge that will get hotter. I might give that a shot, Drew I have not checked my oil temp but I have been
heating it up with hot steel. To be honest I'm not sure what oil temp would be best and I've just plunged the knife in the oil no agitation.
Cody I've cleaned the knife with steel wool to remove the residue but no sanding to bare metal. As you can see I'm a back yard smith with a little bit of
equipment and a long ways to go so thank you all for helping me out.
 
Last edited:
bill may said:
Man lots of good answers let me try to get to everyone if I can Russ I don't have a temp gage on my gas forge but it will get the metal
to a bright pink color. I do have a coal forge that will get hotter. I might give that a shot, Drew I have not checked my oil temp but I have been
heating it up with hot steel. To be honest I'm not sure what oil temp would be best and I've just plunged the knife in the oil no agitation.
Cody I've cleaned the knife with steel wool to remove the residue but no sanding to bare metal. As you can I'm a back yard smith with a little bit of
equipment and a long ways to go so thank you all for helping me out.
Click to expand...

Honestly, there are a lot of unknowns here, so it's difficult to give you a very specific or comprehensive answer. That said, generally you're canola oil should be about 130F or so, in order to maximize your cooling. Also try to move the blade back and forth to "agitate" the quench somewhat, and help with the cooling process. You also want to make sure you're taking the blade a little bit higher than non-magnetic before quench.
 
Hey guy's I fired up my coal forge this morning and followed all your good advise
and that 65 Rockwell file bounced of that blade without leaving a mark.
After doing this Daniel I have to agree you I just don't think that I was getting
the steel hot enough. If I don't mess this knife up I'll post some pic's and thanks
again for all the help.
 
I emailed Nicholson regarding the file steels recently. They replied that it's W1. Also, a while ago, I heated O1 in a backyard charcoal fire pit, held it for 30 minutes or so at around 1500 F, then quenched in Dot 4 brake fluid and it hardened up nicely.
 
duurza said:
I emailed Nicholson regarding the file steels recently. They replied that it's W1. Also, a while ago, I heated O1 in a backyard charcoal fire pit, held it for 30 minutes or so at around 1500 F, then quenched in Dot 4 brake fluid and it hardened up nicely.
Click to expand...

Glad it worked out for you ( or at least appeared to work out for you), but both those procedures are pretty bad ideas.

1) A fire pit for 30 minutes would almost surely overheat the edge and grow grain severely. I can't imagine how you could hold it at exactly 1500F in a fire pit.

2) Brake fluid is a very poor quenchant and the fumes may be toxic.

This type of info gets out in the internet and people with no experience think it must be good advice because someone wrote about it on Bladeforums or put it on You-Tube.
 
Nicholson files are all clean simple carbon steel with about 1.25% carbon, Ive seen the specs on several. Also according to the head "guy" they have not changed it in many years..It fits inside W1 parameters just like thy told you but has more carbon than you "generally" get in most w1. Most of it is about .90%-1.00% carbon that Ive seen specs on..very good steel..
heres specs on a Nicholson file..
C:1.28 | Mn:0.34 | P: 0.016 | S:0.015 | Si:0.15 | Cu: 0.02 | Cr:0.14 | Mo:0.005 | Ni: 0.02 | Sn: 0.002 |
These specs courtesy of Matt Bower..
 
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