Trouble with forge welding

Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
23
When trying to weld up old cable or even old steel I can git one to take the next wont. Or if I try two bars say 10" long I may have half good weld them the rest wont take. I guess my question is, if the pieces don't fuse fully on the first try do you need to cut un fused parts off so the space between can be ground again before retrying it?
 
Ten inches is a mighty long weld, in one heat. six inches or less is much more to my taste. Just reflux the pieces and try again.

Fred
 
Ten inches is a mighty long weld, in one heat. six inches or less is much more to my taste ...
Fred

Right on.:thumbup:
If it's something like a 'viking sword' edge, I'll go 4 or less depending on how it 'feels' as I go.
 
You will need to toss that piece and start again or soak the bad billet overnight in battery electrolyte, rinse well and re-weld. Its a mess but Ive saved a few that way. Ive heard vinigar works but takes way longer.

Welcome to Shop Talk. Tell use more info about your process and eqipment etc. We may be of better help.
 
You got to make sure you are at welding temp. Flux and brush the hell out of it when bring it up to temp. Start with medium blows from the handle up following the strands. Good Luck.:thumbup:;):D
 
Welcome to Shop Talk. Tell use more info about your process and eqipment etc. We may be of better help.

Got to agree with Bruce here. Are you using coal or gas? How are you prepping your billets? How are you fluxing? Give us a little more info and I'm certain we can help you out.

Welcome to the forums!

-d
 
thanks guys : I am using a gas forge. sounds like I need to be more careful in the prep. The material was a hay rake tine from a very old ( horse drawn ) hay rake. I ground it and cut it into 10 inch pieces because of its small diameter. the plan was to weld it then fold it to get a good billet. I have been using 20 mule team as flux. Should I only be fluxing the first few inches to start with them work in segments? I fluxed the whole thing at the start.
 
There could be several problems here:

If this is your first attempt at forge welding - then you are experiencing the normal result. It takes time to learn how welding works.

90% of bad welds are caused by not being at welding heat.

There is such a thing as too much flux, but too little flux is usually more of a problem. Learning to flux/reflux is the trick to welding.

Just like eating an elephant - a little at a time. Weld up a small section each heat, going down the billet. After it is welded up, re-work it again at welding heat to make sure all welds are solid.

Done right, properly fluxed, and at the proper heat you can weld two old rusty springs together with no more preparation than knocking the dirt off. (I do recommend surface grinding and proper preparation)
 
A couple of other notes for you. In my opinion, not much is more important to the success of a good weld than surface preparation. I grind everything clean and flat before beginning. This minimizes crud in the weld line as well as space for flux to seep into the weld.

Also, you want to flux the entire workpiece as soon as it's hot enough to melt the flux (a dull to medium red in color). The primary job of the flux is to keep oxygen away from the weld, so unless you coat the joints with flux before you bring the steel back up to a heat that will generate scale, your welds are likely to fail.

As Stacy said, make sure you've got everything hot enough when you try to weld as well. If a weld doesn't take (you'll "feel" when it weld properly), wire brush and reflux it as quickly as you can and then put it back into the forge.

Give it a shot again and let us know how it goes.

-d
 
Thanks again guys. I have only had my forge operational a little while it seems the first time was my best. I did a cable as described in Wayne Goddard's book. My other trials have not been good I have a pile of old cutting edges and car springs and parts that should be good steel. Also lots of old rusty cable which I want to try. I will keep trying and watching the forum. Bob
 
If at all possible, get somebody show you how to forge weld.
Ten thousand pages of descriptions aren't worth seeing it done once.
For what is worth... steel should be fluxed in borax or silicaceous (or how the hell you spell that) sand. The latter being far better (tried both).
Do it at a red heat.
The pieces should be DAMN CLEAN on the surfaces that must weld. Grind them clean, don't touch them. Yes, grease from fingerprints will be annihilated by the forge blast, but meanwhile it'll do things (bad things) to the steel.
Wait until the flux bubbles, the forge inside is white and too bright to watch without making your eyes water (which is a good suggestion your body gives you that you SHOULDN'T watch in the forge at such heat without proper eye protection! At such heat the forge will project a lot of IR and even UV that your eye can't see... but it will damage your eyesight!).
The steel itself should look as butter about to melt, except butter (usually) doesn't shine like a nuclear reactor gone bad...
White bright is the key word. Local illumination can vary a lot what the steel will look like. Welding is better done in a subdued light.
If the steel looks like it's too cold to weld, than it is.
Don't get it sparking, though, as it means you are burning it. And a hammer blow will probably crumble it like old clay.
You should get to welding temp with a neutral atmosphere. In a coal forge with proper refractory materials, you can even do that in a reducing atmosphere, and you won't need flux at all (I know people who forge weld this way without flux at all!).
The fire has to be deep and clean, I can't stress this enough, and the piece must be kept out of the direct blast from the tuyere, if possible.
If you use a gas forge, the burner must be properly tuned.
When the weld takes, the hammer will feel deader when hitting the metal. Otherwise, everything will have a more springy feel.
Once you tried it once and succeeded, you will know what I mean.
This said, I repeat: go and see it done, and have somebody qualified teach you do it.
If at all possible, do it at your own forge, so he will be able to point out any problems it may have, and you will learn to do it in the conditions you usually work in.
 
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