Trouble with HT on W2 folder blade

Bob Ohlemann

Bob Ohlemann

Joined
Dec 5, 2013
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1,180
Ok guys, I am stumped on this. I am doing a tanto folder blade in Aldo's W2. I've used steel off this bar before and got good results so I know it is W2. The blade in question is about 3-1/2" overall length and about 1-1/4" tall. Thickness at the spine is .170" and the edge is hollow ground to .035" on a 10" wheel to about 2/3rds of the blade height. I thermal cycled at 1600, 1475, and 1425. Cleaned the blade up and applied a thin swath of clay (satanite) covering a section of the spine and a narrow strip on each side near the top. Brought the blade to 1450 and held for five minutes. Quenched straight into Parks 50 at room temp which was about 60 degrees. When I hand sanded the blade to clean it up, I couldn't see any hamon. I etched it for five minutes in FC and nothing; it just kinda turned gray and no black like you get if there is decarb. I ran a chainsaw file across the edge and it seemed to cut too easily. Checked hardness near the lockface and got 30c.

At this point, I thought about everything in the process and remembered thinking the blade seemed a little dark when it came out of the oven. It was however, certainly orange; well brighter than a black heat. I also thought maybe my clay was too much. I cleaned the blade up again and re-clayed it. This time I did a very thin Nike swoosh on each side and no clay on the spine. I set a two stage heating with a five minute hold at 1400 then ramp to 1460 for five minutes and again, quickly into the Parks 50. Results are the same.

I thought about pre-heating the oil but I've also read several times that Don Hanson has no trouble quenching into room temp oil. I've also had no trouble in the past but, this is the smallest blade I've attempted to put a hamon on. I am hoping to have this ready for Little Rock but any other blade would look wrong so, I've got to get this figured out. Any thoughts??

Bob

The photo below shows the same blade shape as the one I'm trying to do in W2.

2016-02-06_08-31-55 by Bob, on Flickr
 
AFAIK, Aldo's W2 came spheroidized. Try 1675F with 15 min soak to break up carbide before your regular normalizing might help.
 
I use Aldo's W2 and use the same heat treatment as you except I heat to 1460 for ten minutes before quenching in Park's 50. I also warm the Park's 50 up to 80 or 90 degrees.
 
I did some research on the spheroidized W2 and it did seem a good soak was recommended. I went with 1650 degrees for 20 minutes then normalized again at 1475 and 1425 for five minutes each. I cleaned up the blade yet again and clayed it. I'll let the clay dry overnight and I will try austentizing again in the morning. I will heat my oil to at least 100 degrees for tomorrows attempt. If this doesn't work, I will give up on this blade and try to find a good alternative. Problem is, I've got some really nice mammoth and meteorite on the knife and I really hate to compromise at this point.

Bob

Here is the blade as clayed this evening. Pretty much the same as last time.

2016-02-14_05-37-32 by Bob, on Flickr
 
I just got some Aldo w2 for the first time and did 1650, 1525, 1450, then 1400 for thermal cycles. 1475 soaked for 10 minutes and into room temp parks. It's my first time using w2 and first time getting steel from the baron. We will see how it comes out when etched but the preview is looking ok. I'll tag ya in a video of the activity on Instagram you'll see the activity
13F52785-42B6-4025-B9FB-26E8C4FE12D0_zpsq0mkbwwa.jpg
 
Kevin Powers said:
I just got some Aldo w2 for the first time and did 1650, 1525, 1450, then 1400 for thermal cycles. 1475 soaked for 10 minutes and into room temp parks. It's my first time using w2 and first time getting steel from the baron. We will see how it comes out when etched but the preview is looking ok. I'll tag ya in a video of the activity on Instagram you'll see the activity
Click to expand...

Kevin, I saw the video; it looked pretty good! Do you have a plan for how you are going to etch it? I've been using FC and polishing with Flitz and makeup remover pads. I think Nick Wheeler's technique produces more drama but, it is highly time intensive.

Bob
 
I etch with diluted FC, I am not sure of the ratio because I've added water to it so many times, but it's very diluted. I etch, hit it with windex, then polish with 1500 grit silicon carbide powder mixed with wd40. I flitz at the very last cycle as it darkens the metal a tad and it helps with corrosion I believe. There's so many different ways to go about it.
 
Bob, I've had the odd blade not harden properly. I mostly use Aldo's W2. In the winter, my shop is 50-60f. I bring the oil into the house the day before I heat treat, so it's at least 70f. Any time I have a blade that doesn't garden, it's because the oil was too cold. I did a bunch of tests on W2, and it will harden at as low as 1425, but you will get inconsistent RC readings. 1450/1460 seems to be the sweet spot for most smiths. I also use 1650 for normalizing. I use the same program as I use for 52100, and it works well, with the 1460 austentize instead of the 1475 52100 uses.
 
Willie71 said:
Bob, I've had the odd blade not harden properly. I mostly use Aldo's W2. In the winter, my shop is 50-60f. I bring the oil into the house the day before I heat treat, so it's at least 70f. Any time I have a blade that doesn't garden, it's because the oil was too cold. I did a bunch of tests on W2, and it will harden at as low as 1425, but you will get inconsistent RC readings. 1450/1460 seems to be the sweet spot for most smiths. I also use 1650 for normalizing. I use the same program as I use for 52100, and it works well, with the 1460 austentize instead of the 1475 52100 uses.
Click to expand...

Thanks Warren. Your comments are always very informative and helpful. I have a feeling my issue stemmed from the oil being too cool. Today I checked my oil before I heated it and it was 60 degrees. Today was warmer than the last couple days so the oil was likely in the mid-fifties before. I heated it to 120 and I think things went much better. I skated a file across the edge and then tossed it in the temper oven. I'll know more tomorrow.

Bob
 
My oil tank plugs in and has a temp gage on the side. I usually plug it in and give it a 1/2 hr to warm up.
 
Well, I didn't finish the knife for the show but, I did get my HT sorted out on this blade. I think going forward all my W2 blades will get a long soak (30 min) at 1650 followed by a 1475 and 1425 normalizing and a quench from 1460 into oil heated above 100°. I will probably do all the normalizing on stock removal blades once they are rough profiled so I can keep decarb to a minimum once the blade is closer to final shape. Always learning; one of the best things about knifemaking.

Bob

2016-02-18_04-43-10 by Bob, on Flickr
 
Hi Bob, i use PCB antiscale compound...i won't go back!!! It just go away with water and soap and you'll find clean steel underneath.
Use it when normalizing and you won't have any decarb...then if you want an hamon you don't need antiscale for the quick last austenitizing. But if you want a full hardening use it and you could quench with your final grit finish.
Very nice results you got!!!!
 
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