Trouble with L6 damascus

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Sep 1, 2009
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I am currently trying to forge 3 layers of 1/4" 1080 and 2 layers of 3/16" L6 for a damascus billet. I have attempted to forge by hand but was unsucsessful I then attemped with a 300lb power hammer. I had what appeared to be a sound weld, but when I scored the first slab after drawing, it peeled apart when I went to fold it. I am using clean gound steel, a carburizing flame to prevent oxide formation and Borax for flux. Should I anneal the L6 first?
 
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Are you certain it's L6...?
Is it getting hot enough..?
How are you acheiving the weld (press, hammer,etc)..?

What does "scoring the first slab" mean.....?
 
When I said scoring I am refering to cutting partially though the billet, I am heating the billet to over 1950 degrees that is how high my infrared pyrometer will go
 
When I said scoring I am refering to cutting partially though the billet, I am heating the billet to over 1950 degrees that is how high my infrared pyrometer will go. I am assuming it is L6. I have aquired a large supply of excellent condition 24" circular saw blades
 
Odds are, It isn't L6......could be 15N20, or ...? To know for certain
you'll either have to have it analized, or contact the Mfr, and ask them.

Welding temps generally run between 2100-2300f......most smiths
judge welding heat by the way the flux pools on the surface, and
bubbles out of the potential welds.

If you're folding (instead of stacking), I'd suggest cutting about
90-95% of the way through, thus only the steel nearest the surface
needs to bend. That will help minimize sheering between layers.
 
Thanks I have a friend in the the metalurgical department at work I'll ask him to do the analysis
 
when doing a forge weld it does not take a lot of force to make the weld happen if your surfaces are cleaned. a hammer should do it fine and if thats giviung you problems then there is somthing wrong.
 
At 1900F ,you are not near hot enough to weld the billet.
Get a coat hanger and straighten it out. Clean the end off so it is bare metal.

Start with a clean, and solidly connected billet stack. Welding the ends or corners works well. A handle welded on is not necessary, but makes the task easier.

Heat the billet, fluxing it when it gets dull red.
Reflux at orange red.
When approaching welding heat ( 2100-2300F), give a small re-fluxing, but there is no need to have the billet covered with too much flux.Make sure you heat the billet long enough to get the center just as hot as the sides, BTW.

Touch the coat hanger to the billet (while still in the forge) and if it sticks, the billet is ready to weld. If it doesn't, continue to raise the billet temp. If the billet starts sparking, then it is too hot.

Take the billet out of the forge and "set" the weld by hand with a 3-4 pound hammer. The object is to quickly bring the metal surfaces together with just enough pressure to force out the flux and let the surfaces weld. Repeat down the billet in as many welding cycles as needed to do the billet. Many smiths re-weld again just to make sure. The clue that the billet is properly welded is that the layers stop showing on the side, and it looks like a single block of steel. I check the welds at this point by re-welding- applying the hammer blows from the sides. If there is any poor weld or shear, it will pop right open. Just re-flux, re-heat, and re-weld that area.

Once the billet is set by hand, go to the power hammer/press and re-weld one more time. After that, square the billet, and draw it out for folding.

I have found that keeping the billet at red or higher heat (not letting it cool down below 1200F), wire brushing every time I take it out of the forge during folds,and hot cutting the score to make a fold will allow you to make a good billet faster and with far fewer weld problems. Every time a billet cools down, things happen that are the enemy of damascus welding. Hard scale forms, the metal oxidizes, and stresses try and shear the welds. It is OK to cool the billet and grind the surface and sides after setting the billet ( to square it up, get it ready for folding, remove the tack weld metal, and check for weld lines), but once you re-heat it and start folding, do it as much as possible without bringing it down below red. The entire folding process should be done in one session if possible. If you have to stop for the day,pickle the steel ( soak in acid) to remove all scale and flux residue, and re-grind the surface before starting back up the next session.

Once done with folding, and on to manipulation ( making patterns and twisting) work it at high forging heat to low welding heat ( 1800 to 2100F)


Safety -
Staring into a welding forge for hours can severely damage your eyes....possibly permanently. Wear welding glasses.
Wear full protective leather aprons, not just heavy cloth clothing, because the flux will leave the billet layers at a high speed and 2000F. It will burn right through cotton and possible light it on fire.You need leather between you and the billet. Think ahead about all that red hot flux and where it will be going. Clear the forge area for about 20 feet in all directions of things that you don't want damaged ( cars, bikes, Picasso paintings, etc.), and things that will combust ( papers, leaves,rags, cans of gasoline and solvents, etc.). Have a hose and two fire extinguishers set out and ready.
Keep visitors at a safe distance. Keep the kids somewhere else.
Everyone in the shop area must be wearing eye protection.

Hope this helps.

Stacy
 
When I said scoring I am refering to cutting partially though the billet, I am heating the billet to over 1950 degrees that is how high my infrared pyrometer will go. I am assuming it is L6. I have aquired a large supply of excellent condition 24" circular saw blades
I would wager your 24 inch circular saw blades are not L6, If they have carbide teeth they could be mild steel (1018) which needs higher temps to weld as the lack of carbon raises most functional temperatures. Have you taken some of the alleged L6 and tried to oil harden it?

-Page
 
I'm going to add one more thing to the fire here. L-6 has a much different modulus of elasticity than 1080. What this means is that at the same heat, 1080 will move more easily than L-6 because of this difference, you're going to have to do two things. 1) Work at a welding temp. 2) Not work the billet too hard.

Maybe Delbert will stop in and give a more concrete answer, but if you think you had a solid weld, but it delaminated when you worked it, it very well may have been due to the materials working at different rates and shearing the welds due to the difference in movement.

-d
 
..I scored the first slab after drawing, it peeled apart when I went to fold it...

Grind, cut, stack, and tack weld. Its easier, increases your layers faster, is less likely to trap flux and oxides, and is safer. If you chose to continue to scoring and folding cut 90% of the way though the billet.

A good way to judge welding temperature is to wait until the borax starts to produces fumes. It also helps your eyes because you don't need to look into the forge to judge when its ready to weld.

Also buy some 15n20, its a much closer alloy to 1080 than L6.
 
I was able to send a sample to the metalurgy dept. at work. (I work for the worlds largest Nickel mining company) It is definately L6. I think I was doing two things wrong; Not soaking the billet long enough to heat the inside layers, and hammering too hard causing the welds to shear. Thanks for the advice all!.
 
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