True Hinderers vs ZT offshoots?

D

dragonist2

Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
226
Hi all,

I've recently become interested in Rick Hinderer's designs and I'm pretty thrilled there are cheaper alternatives such as the Cryo and ZT's. I have to ask, are real Hinderers really that much better than ZT's? I'm looking at the ZT 0561, and it seems to have everything: sturdy build, lock stop, Hinderer general design, excellent steel...

Besides for overall fit and finish (which are excellent on both knives), blade sizes/types, and the name, what makes an XM-18 THAT much better than a ZT 0561? As far as I'm concerned, they in wholely different price categories.
 
I don't own a hinderer but I have held one and it didn't seem worth the extra money to me personally. I own two 0560's and love them, they are my favorite blade. The one thing that I noticed the hinderer had over the zt is final fit and finish. It seemed to have no issues like some that you could run across with the 056x's. No problems with lock bar sticking etc, etc. However, zt's customer service is top notch so if you run into a problem that you can't easily fix you can send it in and they will do it for you. I just don't think that the benefits a true hinderer has are worth the 3x cost over the 056x.

Others may disagree with me and like I said I only held a true hinderer for a short period of time so there may be things that I missed that make it worth the higher price tag.
 
I've had a 0550 and a 0551. Both were excellent, and were reasonably priced.
I've had a XM-18 3" slicer-grind and a 3.5" Spanto grind. They were excellent also, but not worth $700 or so each to me.
I've sold all four of them. For my use, they are all too large, too heavy, too heavy-duty for my EDC needs. For many other folks, I'm sure they are PERFECT.
Sonnydaze
p.s. Edit that..the 3" slicer-grind XM-18 was too short in the handle for me.. It's sort of like a small Sebenza, only built more heavily and heavy-duty capable. The small Sebbie is always too short in the handle for me also.
Sonny
 
I have a ZT 560 and 550 as well as an XM-18. I love my ZT's but the XM just exudes quality and is totally worth the money to me and I am by no means wealthy.
 
jstn said:
I have a ZT 560 and 550 as well as an XM-18. I love my ZT's but the XM just exudes quality and is totally worth the money to me and I am by no means wealthy.
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Jstn, when you say "exudes quality" is it a feeling or is there something physically different about the xm-18? I am really curious about this, because my zt 561 seems to as well. I guess that is a general question in the spirit of the op's original post.
 
i have owned a 0560, 550, cryo, and a xm-18

while i liked all knifes, i figured when i got my strider smf my collection would be complete. it filled the void for a week. then i got an unnumzaan and a crk 21. those lasted a few weeks. finally i figured i loved ricks designs the xm line much be for me. the 0560 was a hair large for what i needed so i grabbed an xm-18 at the second hand market value. while it is certainly "worth" the extra money. it was not worth it to me. i dont ruin or beat on my knifes. i use them properly and enjoy them all for different reasons. i couldnt justify a $700 knife to open boxes with and cut my apple. or to pick at my nails with and flip open 200 times a day. it was very beautiful but the 0560 and 0550 were both very impressive and unless you have the money and desire to add those to a collection i say try out the 0560 ot 0550. pick your flavor because both are worth noting.


i haave since sold all my hinder'er designed knives as i personally find the most fun in owning a few knives and then trading and swapping out for a new rotation of edc knives. i have not yet purchased a knife for a second time after i sold or traded away and at this point i have owned every reputable mid tech. only a few knives have staed with me in the long haul: izula, esee 3, zt 0200, and an h1 endura. all of which are wonderful and seem just right for what i enjoy most. and im sure there are plenty of guys who say you should own all three xm sizes. maybe in multiple grinds and colors. its all preference, to each his own brother and good luck
 
I had been buying, trading, collecting knives for almost a year (this was a couple of years ago) I had a pretty nice collection going and I came across a Hinderer XM-18 3.5" GEN lV, it was NIB. This was right around the time pre orders for the 0560-0561 were just getting started. The XM was new and for a good price so i picked it up, Instantly fell in love with it, the ergos, the heft, that crazy buttery smooth flipper action, the grind, just everything about it felt good.... Heard all of the great hype about the ZT and i jumped on the pre-order band wagon. I figured, cool! I'll have my Hinderer for EDC and when I don't want to beat it up too bad I'll use the ZT for the dirty work. So about 1 year later (that's how long it took to get my 0561) it finally comes in and while i did like it at first, it was a shallow comparison to the real XM-18. It felt less solid, too light... It's hard to explain but when i flipped open my 0561, the vibration really rang thru the knife whereas with the XM it's like the Ti dampens the sound and vibration much more.... Kind of like when you get in an older smaller car and you shut the door too hard, the metal kind of rings at a higher pitch, you do that on a newer bigger car and the noise is dampened.
Sure it flipped fast with the KVT bearings but so did my Hinderer .... with no bearings :-/
Side note: (after 2 years of flipping it, the lock bar on the XM has NOT traveled any further than when first i got it)

What to do? The 0561 developed some serious lock rock but the good folks at KAI hooked me up! They fixed it and when i got it back I traded it... I never really warmed up to it, it never felt like an XM-18. Sure the 0561 is a Hinderer design but it was definitely a production model and not mid-tech knife. It's hard and not fair to compare a mid-tech to a production....the comparison gets lopsided really fast.

So in my humble opinion, what makes the Hinderer that much better? I just like how it's put together, not just the materials used but how they go together... Engineering and design would be a good way to put it. Why buy a Rolex if Seiko does the same thing right? Well, from what i gather even if you buy a Hinderer or a Rolex for X amount, you are probably going to be able to get what you paid for it if you decide not to keep it... It's a pretty safe investment. Can't really say that about the other 2
 
I have all of the stated above and while the "real" Hinderers are nice, the ZT and the Cryo are awesome knives IMO! I think the "real" Hinderers are just hyped up because they are either more difficult to obtain or are very expensive on the secondary market!! I must say the XMs are a little smoother than the Hinderer designed pieces! But by all means get yourself a ZT or the Cryo is a steal!!
 
I have not really used/carried a Hinderer except handled a XM 18 3 in. at a local shop however I have a ZT 0560 and a 0550 and they are such great knives and perhaps a better alternative than spending more on a Hinderer. The ZT fit and finish are top notch. Well worth every penny.
 
If you have the money buy an XM, if you dont like it resell it and you stay even. Pretty much. Then move on.
 
zImsKee said:
If you have the money buy an XM, if you dont like it resell it and you stay even. Pretty much. Then move on.
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Nailed it.

The only one who can answer "it is worth it?", is you. Everything is subjective. So pony up, make the call, and if it's not your thing sell it. Even if you loose a few bucks, it's well worth the cost to "know" for yourself.

FYI, owned the Cyro (junk) the two 561's (less than stellar quality) and an XM. No comparison. None. FOR ME. Kershaw makes an OK product, but it's not for me. When judged on their own merits (materials, price/value), they're good. But compared to any true mid-tech? Nah. There's a reason Ricks stuff is so hard to get.

Kershaw may be a 10. But the XM goes to eleven :p
 
Personally, I think that the ZT's do everything the XM-18 does, but flips better. I've owned a few XM-18's and still own one, but I've never owned or even handled an XM-18 that actually flips well. The XM-18 is a great knife at $400, but not at $700.
 
shqxk said:
Is it the marketing strategy... or hype?
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Meh, you very well could be right. But you're dealing with a bunch of geeks. We scrutinize blade steel, handle materiel, choice of hardware etc. My thought is if the XM's didn't measure up, they'd be far less popular. But again, only my opinion here. There are quite a few people who love the Kershaw/ZT stuff. They can't all be wrong.

Look at it this way. I wanted a Sebenza. I mean, really really wanted one. Everyone says how great they are. But I couldn't afford it. So I got a Sage 2. GREAT knife. Outstanding build quality. It'll be one of the knives I always own. But I still wanted a Sebenza. I could not get it out of my head. So I saved. Sold off a few of my other knives. And I got one. And I was like "meh". It's good, but for me (again FOR ME) it just didn't live up to the hype. So I sold it. And now that's out of my system and I can move on.
 
Tony8179 said:
Personally, I think that the ZT's do everything the XM-18 does, but flips better. I've owned a few XM-18's and still own one, but I've never owned or even handled an XM-18 that actually flips well. The XM-18 is a great knife at $400, but not at $700.
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I feel the same way.
The xm-18s I've handled have all been weak flippers with a weak detent and the ZT 560 is just a rocket and is as smooth as butter.
I feel that there are much better options for well under $800.
Don't get me wrong, the xm-18 is well made, but not worth the secondary market prices.
 
If you are eligible for direct purchase (LEO/fire/mil/etc), go for it. Don't give your business to the secondary market flippers in either case though, unless it's something rare.
 
I've owned two XMs and had a 0560. The XMs are WAY overrated if you ask me. I liked my Chris reeve and SnG a lot better. I just didn't find anything special with it. I'd take the ZT over it too, especially the stupid prices the XMs sell for. The fit and finish of Chris reeve knives just can't be match in my opinion. I had one of the newer SnGs and the fit and finish on it were VERY good as well. Just my opinion
 
I own a 550 gen 1, 560 and a 561 love the knives and tip my hat to Rick on the form and function of those knives. Only held a Xm-18 slicer flipper for like 5 mins, and yes its a amazing knife well build and great feel but so are the ZTs. The secondary market prices will always keep me from owing a xm -18 or a 24. For the price of a xm 18 I can get a SMF/SnG , a Small 21, a 6 pack of micro beer and both of those knives are just as well built and the beer tastes a lot better.
 
MadMullet said:
I own a 550 gen 1, 560 and a 561 love the knives and tip my hat to Rick on the form and function of those knives. Only held a Xm-18 slicer flipper for like 5 mins, and yes its a amazing knife well build and great feel but so are the ZTs. The secondary market prices will always keep me from owing a xm -18 or a 24. For the price of a xm 18 I can get a SMF/SnG , a Small 21, a 6 pack of micro beer and both of those knives are just as well built and the beer tastes a lot better.
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LOL, well said sir. The secondary market for XM's is outrageous. Having to pay $700+ for a $385 knife does diminish it quite a bit. But if the market will be support that price? What can you do?
 
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