True Hinderers vs ZT offshoots?

The interesting part is if you go to the Hinderer page he is endorsing the secondary market though his "Dealer List".
 
I support providing a discount to military and first responders, but the business model of only selling to them has created this ridiculous secondary market pricing and allows these first responders to buy cheap and sell high. I also know a guy who takes advantage of this by having his military buddies buy XMs for him, so he can flip them for profit. This is why I'll just stick with ZT.
 
I've had both. I may be biased, because the XM is a recent purchase for me and I CANNOT get it out of my pocket. The ZT0560 was a great knife, but after ya get an XM in your hands, you just say "Yup, this is it".

A big difference I see is the smoothness.. I've had lots of nice knives, and my XM blows pretty much everything away. It's just a pleasure. I'm not a flicker, I enjoy slow openings and walks on the beach.

Also, I'm a big fan of the modular design. Change scale color, add anodized standoffs..etc.. It's fun to play dress up.

Just my $.02
Like dude said, buy one and sell it if ya don't dig it.
I kinda didn't "get it", until I got it.
 
I've owned 4 Hinderer knives and sold them all because while I thought they were great knives, I couldn't justify the price. I've owned five different ZT 550/551s and finally found the right 551 with custom cf scale and I'm set.....it is a great knife at what I consider a great price. I actually prefer Strider knives over all others in the end.....which is probably a source of contention with many people but quality and preference is all in the eye of the owner/beholder. XM knives are truly wonderful, but the secondary market just puts them beyond where they make sense to me........if you have the disposable income to purchase and enjoy them you can't go wrong with Hinderer knives though!!
 
shooterpunk said:
I've owned two XMs and had a 0560. The XMs are WAY overrated if you ask me. I liked my Chris reeve and SnG a lot better. I just didn't find anything special with it. I'd take the ZT over it too, especially the stupid prices the XMs sell for. The fit and finish of Chris reeve knives just can't be match in my opinion. I had one of the newer SnGs and the fit and finish on it were VERY good as well. Just my opinion
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I owned 3 sebenzas. Currently only got one.

1. Large Regular S30V "websight". Polished blade, stonewashed handle w/ CGG (Websight), and hematite inlay
2. Large 21 S35VN (Currently what I have). Stone washed blade/handle.
3. Small 21 S35VN w/ Micarta inlays (traded for some electronic goodies) Polished blade/handles.

The fit and finish on all 3 were great but the issue is the finishing and fit isn't the best.
Let me nitpick:
1. Screws are no longer polished, and often do not sit flush anymore. On all 3, there's always one screw which simply won't sit right.
2. Blade finishes offered: Polished/Stonewash. The Stonewashing is great, but the "polished" blade is subpar as grind marks are still visible.
3. The scale polishing is done okay but not really something I'd consider "polished" more like satin finished, and some scratches could be observed on my Small sebbie. (Small micarta s35vn had polished handles/blade).
4. The remaining hardware could use some better finishing, but not much to gripe about, pretty consistent.
5. All 3 sebenzas would NOT hold the pivot bushing place through a tight fit (which they were known for). I've seen a lot of video's where it is held in place by the fit.
6. All 3 had smooth lock bar's but they quickly developed the sticky lock (lack of carbodizing) which went away after a few days and a lot of sore thumbs later. No issues, it's a somewhat common issue for Ti framelocks.
7. All 3 required loctite, compared to the previous screws on my Regular which did not, ever until I sold it.

That's all. Still a great knife, and that's why I still have one but as a hard use knife I decided to retire it in favor for a Buck vantage pro due to to ergonomics.
 
Custom knives are never worth the money once they become desired collector's items if you want the knife as an actual tool. For me, a ZT Hinderer would be pretty extravagant, but I do love the way they feel and open so smoothly. I do have a Cryo, and it is by far, the best finished Chinese knife I have ever seen from Kershaw.

A real Hinderer would be ideal as a cool retirement present one day.:)
 
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I've owned a Porsche 911, a Rolex (now a Cartier), and currently own an XM-18, among other high value knives. You either have (or develop) an appreciation for well-made, over-engineered, beautifully designed, and high-functioning items, or you don't. Yes, these objects are expensive, but they afford the owner pleasure of touch, use, and visual impact.

People who don't own these coveted items will find every kind of reason to dismiss them as over-priced and "bought for their name." They think we are throwing our money away. If you are happy with ZT's, you should own and enjoy them. But don't think there is not a difference between a ZT and a Hinderer. There is.

And if you can afford it - for years I could not - and you have the interest, I encourage you to try a Hinderer. It is difficult to put into words how high end knives (or other objects) justify their price. But they do. To me, at least. Life is short. I've developed an appreciation of finely crafted knives, and smile every time I use my XM-18, even to open envelopes.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
People who don't own these coveted items will find every kind of reason to dismiss them as over-priced and "bought for their name." They think we are throwing our money away. If you are happy with ZT's, you should own and enjoy them. But don't think there is not a difference between a ZT and a Hinderer. There is.
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Just like people who spend a large sum of money on something will find every reason to justify their purchase and uphold the hype that they've fallen into.

I'm in agreement with an XM being worth the $400 price, but if you paid $700-900 for one, then yes, you are throwing your money away. If you're happy with your fine pieces of cutlery, you should own and enjoy them. But don't think that the $700-900 price tag that people put on them is worth the actual performance and quality of the knife. It's not. :D
 
sticktodrum said:
Just like people who spend a large sum of money on something will find every reason to justify their purchase and uphold the hype that they've fallen into.

I'm in agreement with an XM being worth the $400 price, but if you paid $700-900 for one, then yes, you are throwing your money away. If you're happy with your fine pieces of cutlery, you should own and enjoy them. But don't think that the $700-900 price tag that people put on them is worth the actual performance and quality of the knife. It's not. :D
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+1

I have own both BMW Z4 s35i and Mitsubishi Mirage. I would say Mirage is by far much better value vehicle :D

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I think the Hinderer XM's are worth it made very well and all the ones I have seen and own not one has had to go back like some other manufacturers. They are just perfect to me anyway even got my buddy hooked on them now. The are all buttery smooth.
 
sticktodrum said:
Just like people who spend a large sum of money on something will find every reason to justify their purchase and uphold the hype that they've fallen into.

I'm in agreement with an XM being worth the $400 price, but if you paid $700-900 for one, then yes, you are throwing your money away. If you're happy with your fine pieces of cutlery, you should own and enjoy them. But don't think that the $700-900 price tag that people put on them is worth the actual performance and quality of the knife. It's not. :D
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:thumbup:
 
sticktodrum said:
I'm in agreement with an XM being worth the $400 price, but if you paid $700-900 for one, then yes, you are throwing your money away. If you're happy with your fine pieces of cutlery, you should own and enjoy them. But don't think that the $700-900 price tag that people put on them is worth the actual performance and quality of the knife. It's not. :D
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The problem here is that the vast majority of Hinderer fans, myself included do not have access to the fantastic work of Mr Hinderer at the RRP.

The $700-900 entry fee is the only access to these benchmark knives and I'm willing to pay, am I happy about the markup? No but I have no choice.
Am I throwing my money away as you suggest? No, I am buying and selling (if selling) in the same market and these things are showing a clear pattern of the secondary market pricing going up year by year so I may get a return on my investment in an XM after using it for a few years. Not many knives showing that trend. You are "throwing away" more money by purchasing a Spyderco Military at street pricing.

On another note, the XM is IMO the best production folder on the planet, the success of Ricks designs and collaboration work are testimony to that and I am pleased to EDC an XM.
 
This is very similar to a "cheap CRK alternative" question that pops up every 4 1/2 minutes.

The answer is, there isn't an alternative better.

Just buy it.
 
HRM...A Spyderco Military is worth buying at street price, not MSRP. Why would you think otherwise?
 
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