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True North Knives

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I was hesitant from the outset to order from TNK since some of their site's pages (i.e. shipping policy) seemed messy. A couple weeks back, there was even a conflicting cutoff time for same-day shipping of an order (11am and a few lines later, noon). I decided to make a purchase from them yesterday for a Chainmail Sebenza that I couldn't find anywhere else. After all, the apparent owner/operator Neil was quick to respond to my inquiry a couple weeks back about what the actual cutoff time was for same-day shipping, and at least after his response to me, he edited that page so the conflict would be cleaned up.

In any case, I placed my order, chose Priority Overnight (since it was only a few bucks more than standard) and then noticed later in the day that the tracking number was for standard overnight. Since that wasn't what I paid for, I reached out and he indicated he'd correct that problem. and also told me that no shippers are honoring their shipping timelines due to COVID-19. This is complete BS and has been for a month (for overnight at least).

Stranger still, in this email he indicated that if it came a few minutes past noon, if I wasn't happy, I should reject the package and have it returned to him. Such an all-or-nothing customer service attitude seemed a bit excessive, but I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Sure enough, the package arrived at 1641, nearly five hours past FedEx's guaranteed delivery time, and I wrote politely to him to let him know that he was entitled to a refund and, as such, I'd like a partial refund in kind for the shipping amount.

He responded by calling this a "shake down" and that I was the lowest customer he's encountered in all his 25 years of doing business and that, "of course," he'll never sell to me again. He also indicated that he cannot and will not request a refund from FedEx because he shares the FedEx account with two other companies that are larger than his. (wtf--pay for your own damned account!)

After I replied indicating that I'd open a PayPal dispute seeking this partial refund, and doing so with plenty of civility, Neil called me a "low life cheapskate pecker" and implied that I'll be tossed onto some sort of knife dealer blacklist.

While I think this is a pretty sad set of events, what makes me most upset is that there are brands like CRK that are top-notch in so many ways, and while I don't expect all CRK distributors to follow some strict code of conduct, I do see the authorized dealers as ambassadors of the brands they sell. I've had only positive experiences w/ Chris Reeve Knives as a company and with the knives themselves; I've only called them up in Idaho twice, but their customer service is awesome. I think I'd be letting down CRK as an enthusiastic customer if I didn't pass along this email interaction and let them know that one of their brand ambassadors can so hastily demonstrate such a belligerent disregard for customers.

 
Just so I'm clear: Are you asking for a full refund of the shipping cost because the knife was 5 hours late?
 
FedEx missed the delivery time by five hours, so a refund can be requested for the 41 bucks.

I believe you have 14 days to file from the time of delivery.

It kinda seems like a hassle for the small amount though.

Still...customer service is important.

It would be good to hear from the seller to see if any part of this story is missing.
 
Just so I'm clear: Are you asking for a full refund of the shipping cost because the knife was 5 hours late?
I asked for a refund of the shipping amount because FedEx refunds or credits the accounts for shippers who request it if their timelines are missed. That's FedEx's policy [edit: there are of course some exceptions, like snowstorms]. I'm not asking TNK to eat the cost of the shipping, I'm asking them to get that refund and pass it along to me.

In the handful of other cases this has taken place for me over the past couple years, it's been zero issue. I've also been the one requesting the refund from FedEx (myself the shipper) the past and it's straightforward and SOP.

FedEx missed the delivery time by five hours, so a refund can be requested for the 41 bucks.

I believe you have 14 days to file from the time of delivery.

It kinda seems like a hassle for the small amount though.

Still...customer service is important.

It would be good to hear from the seller to see if any part of this story is missing.

I cannot tell FedEx to refund the charge to me; only the shipper can request this refund. It seems based on Neil's email that his FedEx account is not quite his, but is co-mingled with other (larger) companies that share a distribution center, perhaps to save a few bucks.

Sure, $41 isn't a huge amount of money, but I'm not pissed about the money. I'm pissed about a polite request garnering such an inappropriate response. [edit: it's also about Neil making patently untrue assertions about shippers not honoring their shipping timelines due to COVID-19 when that hasn't been the case for a while now, possibly since any recourse is impossible on his end due to some odd inability to request a refund.]
 
I get it. It certainly does seem like a very poor response by the seller with the information presented.

At any rate, it would be good to hear both sides of the story.
 
I get it. It certainly does seem like a very poor response by the seller with the information presented.

At any rate, it would be good to hear both sides of the story.
Agreed; I'd especially like clarification on his assertion that he "will neither ask for nor receive a refund" from FedEx.

It's not as if I'd asked him to eat the cost; that'd be a miff-worthy request, but my wording left no room for any misunderstanding that I was seeking refund in-kind.
 
Did you get the knife in good condition the next day? I have bought from TNK over the years and have never had any problems out of them. It would be a different story if you didn't receive the knife.
I got the knife in good condition that day, at 1641, as indicated in the OP.

I'm siding with Neil on this one.

I'm reminded of the ugliest word in the English language: Entitlement.
I bought (and more importantly paid for) Priority Overnight and somehow was given a less expensive Standard Overnight designation instead. My purchase means I'm entitled to the knife, and entitled to Priority Overnight (as well as the guarantee attached to it).

Regarding the missed delivery timeline, isn't a money-back guarantee (literally the name of the FedEx URL linked above) literally a license for entitlement? I do realize that this entitlement is not mine directly, but part of my order was the re-sale of a service with a guarantee; I did not receive that service and it's up to the merchant to pursue that recourse, which he can do rather quickly and easily, yet for some tangled-up reason, he won't even ask FedEx for that refund, seemingly because it's not strictly his FedEx account in the first place.

Interesting that you'd rank entitlement uglier than deception, and childish name-calling, but you can side with whomever you'd like. I'm just a noob, and Neil's been around for decades. Any member here who's ever had a neutral or positive experience has basis for siding with him, and nobody here has a reason to give a damn about me, nor to trust me. I've not posted here to try and win anyone over in some sort of internet trial-by-jury, just to share my feedback, but maybe my presumption that I'm allowed to share my feedback is another reason for you to feel that I'm entitled to something I shouldn't be.
 
I’ve dealt with Neil before, orders/email and phone: he has been great and is GTG in my book.

OP: please realize that you must have spent already more than 4 hours in emails and this thread reg. this matter. I suggest to let it go, it reflects worse on yourself than TNK.

Roland.
 
I’ve dealt with Neil before, orders/email and phone: he has been great and is GTG in my book.

OP: please realize that you must have spent already more than 4 hours in emails and this thread reg. this matter. I suggest to let it go, it reflects worse on yourself than TNK.

Roland.
I'd have to type with a snail sliding across my keyboard rather than fingers to have spent that much time on this. I do intend to let it go, but I also don't intend to abandon the post and sit on my hands when I feel something here warrants my response.
 
I'll be interested to hear Neil's side. My experiences with him have always been very good, and in 1 case he has even upgraded my shipping at no additional cost . I don't believe he is in the customer is always right camp, and isn't the most patient seller on the web-but I have always found him to be completely honest and helpful if given equal respect .
 
Much of what Edward Castle (the OP) says is correct.

We did mistakenly prepare the waybill for Standard instead of Priority overnight - after he informed us, we fixed that before FedEx picked up.

He said he needed the knife as a gift for a friend for that evening.

Knowing what is going on in the logistics world we make it very clear in 2 statements (in the comments before an order is processed, in our website and after the order is placed and before the customer proceeds with payment that delivery times are not guaranteed by any carrier - including FedEx.
See below.

As he was so anxious re the 12 o'clock I did offer to have him reject the package on delivery so as to prevent him from having to go through the hassle of returning it if it arrived too late.

From his own words he is very well acquainted to going after shipping refunds with FedEx.

I am quoting his statement in an email to me when I was concerned and told him that FedEx is not delivering on time these days.
Thanks! I'll be fine if it arrives in the afternoon, I just wanted to do my best to make sure it gets here before the evening rush hour.

(By the way - We had a Priority Overnight package sent out on Monday that only arrived at the customer in Delaware yesterday. That guy was understanding and acknowledged that many packages he has ordered don't arrive on time.)

I maintain that FedEx, UPS and USPS are not honoring their shipping commitments , time wise, and rarely is at all giving refunds for only 5 hours late.

Re our shipping arrangement - yes we share a distribution center with 2 large companies and yes that is precisely to get to piggyback on their great shipping rates. I guess Edward Castle doesn't run a business as this makes perfect sense - to me anyway.
If I had my own account with only my volume we would not be able to offer the rates we do for our customers.

So I stand by my statement he was trying to shake me down because apparently this is how he operates with other dealers as well.

Every buyer has the right to do business with whomever they want to. Additionally, sellers have the right to cease business with anyone they want as well.
Since I am clearly not allergic to money it is not in my best interest to drop this Mr Castle - as is my right.


To all of you, including Edward, have a safe and enjoyable weekend.
Neil @ TNK
==================================

Our notes sent to each buyer before processing the order.

The COVID-19 pandemic has created record-breaking shipment volumes.
As more people shop online to avoid crowds in stores, those numbers have grown even more.
This has inflated capacities that are taxing logistics networks in the US and worldwide which may cause delays.

Thank you for your support, Neil @ TNK

=======================================

PLEASE NOTE THAT DURING THIS COVID-19 ERA DELIVERY COMPANY SCHEDULES ARE NOT GUARANTEED.


TNK ADMIN
 
Ok let me see if I have this correct.........

Your knife was shipped to you during a pandemic by a multinational logistics company over which TNK have absolutely zero control.

It arrived 281 minutes later than the multinational promised it would be. And for some inexplicable reason you feel that 281 minutes entitles you to some sort of price break/refund/discount on your purchase from TNK? Do I have that correct?

It sounds like things were already going wrong with your purchase when you began "correcting" TNK's site before you even purchased anything. But TNK continued with your order and sent you your knife which arrived in perfect condition 281 minutes after it was promised.

I don't know who you are or what your knife history is but honestly to come here and attempt to rubbish the name of a well known and respected dealer over 281 minutes during a pandemic is so trivial and petty and to be absolutely absurd.

If this is how you treat the dealers, good luck getting anyone here to deal with you in the future.
 
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