True Temper Perfect?

[quinton]

I once knew a farmer who said his team was envious.

 

[quinton]

Awhile back I became interested in True Temper markings on axes. Poked around on the internet and lost interest until this thread came along. I decided to look for variations of markings on axes with "TRUE TEMPER" and "PERFECT". FWIW, here is what I've found so far:

TRUE TEMPER
PERFECT

quinton's. Actually not so hard to find on the net.

TRUE TEMPER
PERFECT
KELLY WORKS

Net find.

TRUE TEMPER
KELLY PERFECT

My axe - and my favorite (3 1/2 # Michigan), warts and all.

W C KELLY PERFECT
CHARLESTON W VA USA
TRUE TEMPER (right side)

Net find.

W C KELLY PERFECT
CHARLESTON W VA USA
REG US PAT OFF
No 210847
TRUE TEMPER (right side)

Net find.

Bob

Thanks, Bob!
In any combination of trademarks, I think the Kelly's are my most favorite..I think.

 

[BG_Farmer]

Quinton,
Smart was what I was getting at with mules. That anecdote may be true.

Regarding the other thing, well, I don't have any self esteem to brag about on the mule scale of things to start with...

 

[rjdankert]

Thanks, Bob!
. . .

You are welcome.

Bob

 

[rjdankert]

. . .
Hardware Age - Volume 159, Issues 1-5 - Page 23
https://books.google.com/books?id=nqETAQAAMAAJ
1947 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
True Temper quality and workmanship plus power centered balance places the Tommy Axe, Tomahawk, and Dynamic Hatchet years ahead in sales appeal, utility and value. * 3 TRUE TEMPER AXES: The Perfect and Flint Edge — Precision .... . .

For whatever reason, I do not get information from the above link.
My result:

Or this one.

. . .
Farm Journal - Volume 70, Issue 4 - Page 62
https://books.google.com/books?id=jYtRAAAAYAAJ
1946 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
...True Temper Hatchets The Tomahawk, The Tommy Axe, Dynamic Hatchet light, perfectly balance tools for heavy work. * True Temper Axes The Perfect, the Flint Edge –preferred 2 to 1 by expert ...
. . .

My result:

. . . For anyone that's interested, I found those two references on the first page of results for this google books search:

"true temper" perfect axe -kelly -jet -rocket . . .

This query gives me the reference to the Farm Journal, but the reference for "Hardware Age - Volume 159, Issues 1-5 - Page 23" is not in any of the "About 180 results".
My result:

It looks like the blue highlited text in the query results above, were copied, pasted, and and bold brackets added around "The Perfect". Resulting in:

. . .
Farm Journal - Volume 70, Issue 4 - Page 62
https://books.google.com/books?id=jYtRAAAAYAAJ
1946 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
...True Temper Hatchets The Tomahawk, The Tommy Axe, Dynamic Hatchet light, perfectly balance tools for heavy work. * True Temper Axes The Perfect, the Flint Edge –preferred 2 to 1 by expert ...
. . .

I did find the quoted information for the Hardware Age through my own searching.

Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

For whatever reason, I do not get information from the above link.
My result:

Or this one.

My result:

This query gives me the reference to the Farm Journal, but the reference for "Hardware Age - Volume 159, Issues 1-5 - Page 23" is not in any of the "About 180 results".
My result:

It looks like the blue highlited text in the query results above, were copied, pasted, and and bold brackets added around "The Perfect". Resulting in:


I did find the quoted information for the Hardware Age through my own searching.

Bob

That is correct, for google's "Snippet views" there is often more information available on the search results page, which is why I took excerpts from the search results page. And yes, in my posts I generally make some words "bold" to draw attention to the most important parts.

There is actually a Hardware Age result (listing the True Temper Perfect) at the top of Bob's page of results he posted, along with the Farm Journal result that he highlighted in blue. I guess his point is that it's not the same date as the Hardware Age result I had previously posted (with similar information). Yes, I only quoted one of these Hardware Age results. When I later re-created my google search terms (to explain how I did it), I did it by memory and posted it since it gave both the Farm Journal result and a relevant Hardware Age result (which I thought was the same one I previously posted). Instead, it's another Hardware Age result that I had found, evidently with a some tweak to the search terms.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

 

[rjdankert]

. . . I guess his point is that it's not the same date as the Hardware Age result . . .

No.

. . . it's another Hardware Age result. . .

Yes.


I believe we would agree the following result would be the better one to post if links are to be important to readers:

Hardware Age - Volume 164, Issues 7-13 - Page 122
https://books.google.com/books?id=UqUTAQAAMAAJ
1949 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
True I em per is TOPS in Axes Example — The True Temper Perfect and the True Temper Flint Edge. Expert designs produced on modern equipment by modern methods from modern steels. As a result of user preference based on quality and ...​

And leave out the Farm Journal result or at least strip out the link:

Farm Journal - Volume 70, Issue 4 - Page 62
1946 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
...True Temper Hatchets The Tomahawk, The Tommy Axe, Dynamic Hatchet light, perfectly balance tools for heavy work. * True Temper Axes The Perfect, the Flint Edge –preferred 2 to 1 by expert ...
​

Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

No.



Yes.


I believe we would agree the following result would be the better one to post if links are to be important to readers:

Hardware Age - Volume 164, Issues 7-13 - Page 122
https://books.google.com/books?id=UqUTAQAAMAAJ
1949 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
True I em per is TOPS in Axes Example — The True Temper Perfect and the True Temper Flint Edge. Expert designs produced on modern equipment by modern methods from modern steels. As a result of user preference based on quality and ...​

And leave out the Farm Journal result or at least strip out the link:

Farm Journal - Volume 70, Issue 4 - Page 62
1946 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
...True Temper Hatchets The Tomahawk, The Tommy Axe, Dynamic Hatchet light, perfectly balance tools for heavy work. * True Temper Axes The Perfect, the Flint Edge –preferred 2 to 1 by expert ...
​

Bob

It's my guess that the vast majority of forum readers (myself included) do not care about that level of nitpicking.

 

[rjdankert]

It's my guess that the vast majority of forum readers (myself included) do not care about that level of nitpicking.

Should anyone believe what someone guesses forum readers care about?

Who gets to decide the line between accuracy and nitpicking?

Why do you include links in your posts?

Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

Should anyone believe what someone guesses forum readers care about?

Who gets to decide the line between accuracy and nitpicking?

Why do you include links in your posts?

Bob

It's obviously up to each reader to decide what to believe. I try to avoid what I believe is "nitpicking", and I'm guessing that so do most people here (believe it or not). I generally include links to sources of information that I post.

When I do a google search for
define nitpicking
here are the definitions from the top result:

nit·pick·ing
... looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.
... fussy fault-finding.

 

[rjdankert]

It's obviously up to each reader to decide what to believe.
. . .

Yes, it is up to the reader to decide. And there are many ways to decide. They could simply accept someone's guess as fact, they could determine if something is logical, they could question, they could do their own investigation, etc., etc.

. . .I try to avoid what I believe is "nitpicking",
. . .

Let me emphasize: based only on what you believe.

. . .and I'm guessing that so do most people here (believe it or not).
. . .

So your guess is that most people here do not post what they consider "nitpicking".

. . .I generally include links to sources of information that I post.
. . .

A practice I find highly commendable, and one I try to emulate. Posting accurate links are very important to me given that my humble human brain does not contain 100% perfect facts, nor am I capable of 100% perfect recall.

. . .When I do a google search for
define nitpicking
here are the definitions from the top result:

nit·pick·ing
... looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.
... fussy fault-finding.

Just the definion has no bearing here. And the bold type does not make it any more so.

The point is that "nitpicking" is subjective. It is analogus to the term "beauty" as in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". And so with "nitpicking".

Thus my question was: "Who gets to decide the line between accuracy and nitpicking?".


Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

Yes, it is up to the reader to decide. And there are many ways to decide. They could simply accept someone's guess as fact, they could determine if something is logical, they could question, they could do their own investigation, etc., etc.


Let me emphasize: based only on what you believe.



So your guess is that most people here do not post what they consider "nitpicking".


A practice I find highly commendable, and one I try to emulate. Posting accurate links are very important to me given that my humble human brain does not contain 100% perfect facts, nor am I capable of 100% perfect recall.


Just the definion has no bearing here. And the bold type does not make it any more so.

The point is that "nitpicking" is subjective. It is analogus to the term "beauty" as in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". And so with "nitpicking".

Thus my question was: "Who gets to decide the line between accuracy and nitpicking?".


Bob

I think the definition clearly applies to what you're doing. I thought you'd take the hint and drop it and spare us all. Your critiques and fault-finding are of little importance to the OP's query, which is a good indicator that it's nitpicking.

nit·pick·ing
... looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.
... fussy fault-finding.

 

[rjdankert]

I think the definition clearly applies to what you're doing.
. . .

By your subjective opion.

. . .I thought you'd take the hint and drop it and spare us all.
. . .

Funny thing, I thought you should have dropped it much sooner. BTW, who is "us" - you got a mouse in your pocket?

. . .Your critiques and fault-finding are of little importance to the OP's query,
. . .

But of course your critiques and fault-finding are of the greatest importance to the OP's query.

. . .which is a good indicator that it's nitpicking.
. . .

Who is to judge that you are not being a nitpicker here?

nit·pick·ing
... looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.
... fussy fault-finding.

The point is that "nitpicking" is subjective.

sub·jec·tive
səbˈjektiv/Submit
adjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
"his views are highly subjective"
synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
"a subjective analysis"

Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

By your subjective opion.


Funny thing, I thought you should have dropped it much sooner. BTW, who is "us" - you got a mouse in your pocket?


But of course your critiques and fault-finding are of the greatest importance to the OP's query.


Who is to judge that you are not being a nitpicker here?


The point is that "nitpicking" is subjective.

sub·jec·tive
səbˈjektiv/Submit
adjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
"his views are highly subjective"
synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
"a subjective analysis"

Bob

A big difference is that I was replying to your specific questions and critiques regarding my posts. You were bringing up criticisms and finding faults, uninvited.

I think that Bob's criticism and fault-finding qualifies as "nitpicking". On the other hand, I'm starting to suspect that what I'm doing in this thread is a type of "enabling", which tries to achieve resolution but only perpetuates the problem. So, I'll stop going along with Bob's "nitpicking". My apologies to everyone else for not stopping sooner.

 

[rjdankert]

A big difference is that I was replying to your specific questions and critiques regarding my posts.
. . .

The "big difference" is that your replies are more of a defense of your personality than any actual substance.

"Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of understanding of others' feelings."​

Where did you reply to my specific question: "Who gets to decide the line between accuracy and nitpicking"?

You didn't. You gave a description (twice in bold) for "nitpicking". Then you decided that that term applied to my comments, completly ignoring the subjective nature of that term. So what makes you think you are the decider?

. . .
You were bringing up criticisms and finding faults, uninvited.
. . .

You were bringing up criticisms and finding faults, uninvited. Right?

. . .
I think that Bob's criticism and fault-finding qualifies as "nitpicking".
. . .

For the record, I believe that is what you truly think and you have every right to post your opinions.

However, you've continued to state over and over what you think as if it has some special relavence. Let me remind you that you are just one of 18,687 active BF members.

. . .
On the other hand, I'm starting to suspect that what I'm doing in this thread is a type of "enabling", which tries to achieve resolution but only perpetuates the problem.
. . .

Is the "resolution" you are trying to achieve for me to go away and shut up? Is the "problem" that I don't recognize that what you think is the absolute last word and the only opinion that is valid?

. . .
So, I'll stop going along with Bob's "nitpicking".
. . .

Wow, you just won't quit with this. Repeating "nitpicking" long enough and loud enough will never make it so.

. . .
My apologies to everyone else for not stopping sooner.

Yeah, right.


Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

The "big difference" is that your replies are more of a defense of your personality than any actual substance.

"Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of understanding of others' feelings."​

Where did you reply to my specific question: "Who gets to decide the line between accuracy and nitpicking"?

You didn't. You gave a description (twice in bold) for "nitpicking". Then you decided that that term applied to my comments, completly ignoring the subjective nature of that term. So what makes you think you are the decider?


You were bringing up criticisms and finding faults, uninvited. Right?


For the record, I believe that is what you truly think and you have every right to post your opinions.

However, you've continued to state over and over what you think as if it has some special relavence. Let me remind you that you are just one of 18,687 active BF members.


Is the "resolution" you are trying to achieve for me to go away and shut up? Is the "problem" that I don't recognize that what you think is the absolute last word and the only opinion that is valid?


Wow, you just won't quit with this. Repeating "nitpicking" long enough and loud enough will never make it so.


Yeah, right.


Bob

 

[RICKOFF]

I've not looked at this thread in a few days, and must admit that you guy's are very entertaining as keyboard NINJAS and I hope that it was just witty banter.

 

[Square_peg]

Go have a beer, guys.

 

[Steve Tall]

I've not looked at this thread in a few days, and must admit that you guy's are very entertaining as keyboard NINJAS and I hope that it was just witty banter.

It's happened before here (at the axe forum), and instead of "entertaining" it was called "boring". So I tried to minimize my own part, just replying to what was asked. "Witty banter" seems to have flown out the window, though.

Go have a beer, guys.

Dunno bout that. It got pretty nasty at the end, over something so minor.
Not my cup of tea (or beer).

 

[Chefwillyd]

I have never seen a Perfect without Kelly before. No eye ridges, and hung on a Keen Kutter handle that looks to be original.

I've got one too, but I can't figure out how to upload the picture.
It's exactly like yours but on the original handle.