True-Tilt

G

GRapp

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Nov 14, 2022
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197
I've read enough of you guys saying jigs are for folks trying to bypass the learning of grinding bevels and how it handicaps the user. I don't think a thread exists here or elsewhere that at least one maker hasn't said, "I started with one but went freehand and haven't used it in...". In light of this I've been making knife looking objects from mild steel for practice practice practice. The True-Tilt isn't a jig but rather a work rest. If I try one will I be handicapping myself, or maybe they cause a deficiency I'm not aware of? Something else I'm not considering?
Gary
 
A flexible rest can be very useful. If it's not helping on a certain step you can take it off. I do mostly free hand, but a rest at a precise angle is crucial for grinding a clip for example.
 
It’s doing essentially the same thing as a jig but don’t worry about it. Get whatever you think would be most useful. I like to freehand as much as possible but I still use a jig to set my bevel angles and establish a good flat on each side of the blade just like I used to with a file guide. That’s just an easy way to remove a variable in my mind. After I have good flats it’s all freehand from there. Freehanding definitely works better especially when grinding tips and more delicate finishing work but it takes a while to get a feel for it.

Using jigs and work rests just takes a lot of the feedback away you get from the blade while grinding. That’s where it starts handicapping you in my opinion. They definitely have their place but honestly my stuff has gotten much better the less I rely on them.
 
That looks like a pretty nice set up. There is nothing wrong with using a tool rest. I've been making knives for about 10 years. About 3 years ago I learned to free hand grind. Before that I would always use a push stick and either a wheel or flat platen and tool rest. There are some great knife makers who use a tool rest. If you're starting, out make sure you have layout lines, check often and grind to them.
With a push stick that almost comes to a point. You can get very specific on your pressure. And take material off very accurately. Travis Wuertz has a good video demonstrating how I was taught. On YouTube "Basic grinding techniques". I use a mix of both methods now, if I have to do some heavy stock removal. I will definitely use a toolrest and wheel.
Gilbert
 
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Hello G GRapp

I think any maker would tell you that you have to use what you have to get what you want 😊 I’ve tried several jigs including the table that you reference. I was interested in it specifically for hollow grinds.

What I found was the same thing that I have found from jigs in general, they are good as your set up. IF everything is square and aligned and stays that way throughout the grind, it’s peaches. If not, jigs just force the profile that your setup dictates.

I think the reason that many people go freehand , including myself 100% of the time, by the time you work through all that with the jig, you “learn” the mechanics and can more readily repeat them with less setup time freehanded.

I live close to Brodbeck Itonworks. When I first picked up my 2x72, Ryan Brodbeck told me “it’s a feel thing”. I didn’t get that AT ALL at the time lol. With practice, your grinds will “feel right” freehanded. The jig being between the blade and your ability to “feel” the grind can be a hindrance.

Bottom line: use what works, the knife don’t care how it got there 😊

John
 
Jigs being a handicap is just a forum urban legend. You do need to learn to grind by hand too though, jigs mostly do well on straight surfaces as an extreme example. You might want to raise or sink a grind in spots so both skills are useful.

My work flow goes... rough in 24-36 grit by hand. Maybe jig or by hand on 80 grit. Maybe jig after or not on following grits depending if it is appropriate.
 
Remember when the PC cases were flat and dull? Now they are flashy glas and lights. Just waiting who will have the first metallic painted, lighted and stroboscoped, 5-axys, motorized and automated, equipped with a shelf of jigs and goodies, flashing all over, grinder! :)
 
Many knife makers look down on those who use jigs but not makers who use cnc machines. Which are more hands on? I, like Daniel, grind both ways.
 
I remember when these arguments were really toxic in the late '80s into the early '00s. If you didn't hold the blade in your hand to grind you didn't mention it. CNCs were anathema.

My question has always been, "Why would you pigeon-hole yourself into only one way to do things?" Learn as many skills as you can and you're a more capable maker. DUH! What you don't want is no options when you run into an issue you don't have the skills to pull off.

It's downright silly that this can still be so damnably "tribal" after all this time. It's a freakin' knife. Do you like what I did or not and is it well done are the things that matter, no?
 
JoeBusic said:
Remember when the PC cases were flat and dull? Now they are flashy glas and lights. Just waiting who will have the first metallic painted, lighted and stroboscoped, 5-axys, motorized and automated, equipped with a shelf of jigs and goodies, flashing all over, grinder! :)
Click to expand...
You don't have that in Croatia yet??? That is probably why you can't wait to get out of there.
Everyone here has it. The lights are powered by a magnetic pickup in the drive wheel. The newer models have a holographic knife suspended in the air over the tracking wheel.
 
I like to say that CNC machines are kinda like hammers, they are only as useful as the person using them. Jigs and all other tools are the same way. A large part of making knives is learning skills. We should learn as many techniques as we'd like to learn and don't look down on others who choose differently.
 
I regularly post about not using jigs to learn on. That does not mean I don't use them. I build all kinds of jigs and platens, and work rests. They help me grind and sharpen better. They don't do it for me.
A few of my newer grinding tools could certainly be called jigs and come close to doing specific tasks pretty muck flawlessly, but they still need me to set them up correctly and guide the blade through the path across the belt. Even then, many blades will not work on them.

I am in the same camp as Contender - a jig is only as good as the person using it.
 
G GRapp I guess I'm to old to understand how this stuff works. I hope you got something out of what all these fine gentlemen shared with you.
 
I use the tru tilt. I like the training wheels; But, I find that the more I do by hand, it is easier and turns out as planned. I also find that variable speed is your very best friend. I have done about 30 blades in five months and I still am not convinced that I have it down.
 
Gilbert M, I have gotten something out of the responses and appriciate them. I'm nearly finished making my version of the tilting work rest, just waiting on an M6 countersink to arrive. I still plan to continue free-handing. I also intend to try tools available to me until I find what works best for me. I read a few books over the last few weeks/months so I not sure if it was David Boye or Wayne Goddard to that planted the seed but because of it, I ordered a foot pedal. I plan to connect it to my grinder so I can start & stop at the intended angle without getting wonky. I'm aware this may not work as good as hoped but I don't know what tools I like until I've tried them.
I'm currently spending as much time making tooling as I am making knives and I like it just as much.
 
You might like "How to make knives" that and David Boye were my first two books. If you can find a knife club that could be helpful, that's how I found someone to take lessons from. If lessons don't work out, see if you can find someone to let you spend some shop time with. Watching someone grind you may pick up things you don't see in a video or pick up from a written word. I have to stop myself from making tools/tooling.
 
I tried all and use all. Simply because of the reactivity of different steels to grinding. Favorite method is stick grinding. Hand grinding works fine for most steels. Carbide monsters are a different thing. Lot's of pressure is hard to maintain straight with hand grinding. Jigs help. Pushing hard with a stick (just a name) allows straightness with hard pressure. Cross grinding helps to maintain that straightness and it's always interesting how much it isn't straight with every step. In the end, skill with any means possible will define one's results. Who cares how was it made. I don't learn from others as do believe that one has to be himself. Mistakes will make a change towards skill. Learning from others makes the journey far longer.
 
I built a jig I never used for a long time. I learned freehand it was just more convenient. I tried out my jig a few weeks ago and loved the consistency I got with it. However I do think I can feel a difference between my jig grind and free hand grind when it comes to cutting. I plan on using a hybrid approach where I use the jig to set a bevel angle 20 degrees for example then freehand in the rest of the primary bevel.
 
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