Trying to get 1050 steel

M

Masterjuggler

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Dec 22, 2013
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I'm helping a friend to make a katana. I do not expect it to come out perfectly (or even good-looking) with my level of experience, and I made sure he knows that. Anyway, I've been trying to figure out where to get some 3/8"x1-3/8" 1050 steel, as specified by the Wally Hayes video. I got a quote from Admiral Steel for $242 not including shipping for two 48" annealed lengths of it. I'm used to njsteelbaron prices, so this is kinda silly, unless someone can correct my sense of price.

Is there a better place to get 1050 steel? Or maybe I just didn't ask for the right specifications? Is there another steel that would take similarly to the interrupted water quench to form the backward curve and hamon line?

Thanks in advance.

Afterthought: I really need to become active on the forum, especially considering all I've done over my past few threads was to ask for help. My knives have been on hold for a while because life got in the way (college and stuff). I also don't make a living off this and it isn't my main hobby (3d printing is). I do like the forum though and plan to become a part of it.
 
Look for 1045, it's much more common here, if you find a local steel supplier that has it, it'll likely be more of an issue meeting their minimums, than the cost itself, which shouldn't be more than $2 a lb.
 
Admiral's price is high because they are cutting a strip from plate, probably with a saw. Also they are probably offering you a strip with the grain direction running the wrong way (with the 1.375" dimension). If you're forging, this doesn't matter much.

If you are set on affordable 0.375 x 1.375, you should be looking for bar (real bar, not a strip cut from plate), I think. Or go with NJSB's 1075.
 
Aldo's low alloy 1075 is just right for this type project, IMHO. A bar of .375"X1' X 48" runs $30. That will forge a katana and a tanto, or two wakizashi.

He also has 1045 in stock in .20". A 1.5" wide bar 48" long is $22.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith - I was thinking about the 1075 given that the end result will probably be more durable, if a little less historically accurate. Could I use the same methods to work it as if I were using 1050? Like, interrupted water hardening with clay on the spine to (hopefully) make a hamon line?

P.Brewster P.Brewster - I see what you're saying, thanks for clarifying that for me.
 
I tried interrupted water quenching a clay clad 1075 blade once. The spine retained too much heat while the edge cooled too quickly, so as the spine cooled, it pulled the edge apart. That maybe could have been avoided by leaving the edge thicker but I haven't tried since.

Aldo's 1075 develops wonderful hamon though.
 
Masterjuggler said:
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith - I was thinking about the 1075 given that the end result will probably be more durable, if a little less historically accurate. Could I use the same methods to work it as if I were using 1050? Like, interrupted water hardening with clay on the spine to (hopefully) make a hamon line?

P.Brewster P.Brewster - I see what you're saying, thanks for clarifying that for me.
Click to expand...

Quench in oil or send it out for HT better yet. historical accuracy is fun and all but if you dont want this thing to rip itself apart, dont use water.
 
Greenberg Woods Greenberg Woods - I appreciate the warning. We thought about it before, and decided we want to do this 100% ourselves, knowing full well it may fail.

S.Alexander S.Alexander - During my research, I read something about quenching in canola oil curving the blade the wrong way. Is this not so with 1075?
 
Pictures of what I was describing.
2ijymLm.jpg


1075 hamon. You would probably polish it out further than this but this shows how much activity there can be.
IZrBaqB.jpg

dSHsA0d.jpg
 
Masterjuggler said:
Greenberg Woods Greenberg Woods - I appreciate the warning. We thought about it before, and decided we want to do this 100% ourselves, knowing full well it may fail.

S.Alexander S.Alexander - During my research, I read something about quenching in canola oil curving the blade the wrong way. Is this not so with 1075?
Click to expand...


If you are going for a sori, then brine quench with the risk is what you want. You could also forge an over "sori" into the blade and when quenching in fast oil, it will get a bit of a negative sori, giving the profile you want. It's all trial and error to get it right.
 
Willie does what I do ... forge in the sori and use oil. It may take some testing to see how much (if any) reverse sori forms in the oil.
 
That's an interesting approach, I hadn't thought of that. I will seriously consider trying to compensate for the oil by making an over-sori, and I'll bring that up with my friend. I'm using stock removal (yeah, I'm not really sure why I'm throwing around the word traditional anymore lol) so I could just get a 1.5" or 2" bar. I'd need quite a bit of canola oil though, which going to be a pain to figure out how to get rid of.

kuraki kuraki - Thanks for the pics, I haven't actually seen the aftermath of a blade snapping before. And yeah, I see how distinct a hamon can get out of 1075 now. That makes me feel better. Was the second blade quenched the same way as the first that split, or did you use oil?
 
The second blade was quenched in Parks 50 oil. I attempted the interrupted water quench with the idea it might give even more hamon activity, and I want to try it again but when I do I will leave the edge much thicker.

You only need about 3 gallons of oil to quench a single blade in a vertical tube or horizontal trough.

And if I had to get rid of 3 gallons of canola I would just burn it, but I live in the country and burn brush every year.
 
Masterjuggler said:
That's an interesting approach, I hadn't thought of that. I will seriously consider trying to compensate for the oil by making an over-sori, and I'll bring that up with my friend. I'm using stock removal (yeah, I'm not really sure why I'm throwing around the word traditional anymore lol) so I could just get a 1.5" or 2" bar. I'd need quite a bit of canola oil though, which going to be a pain to figure out how to get rid of.

kuraki kuraki - Thanks for the pics, I haven't actually seen the aftermath of a blade snapping before. And yeah, I see how distinct a hamon can get out of 1075 now. That makes me feel better. Was the second blade quenched the same way as the first that split, or did you use oil?
Click to expand...

I do this with my kitchen knives. The tip always drops 1/4" or so when I quench.
 
Yeah, I'm not going to burn several gallons of oil in my backyard, especially not with neighbors who would call the cops at the drop of a hat. Much more of a PITA than just pouring out water would be.

We'll probably end up just leaving the edge thick, probably a good 3/32 and water quench with warm (like 110F) water. But I will give the oil some thought because it definitely sounds like a better way to not destroy a piece of steel.

Thanks for all the input so far, I really appreciate it.
 
You might have a local way to dispose of oil for free. At least where I am the landfill will accept any sort of liquids (motor oil, cooking oil, paint, ect) free of charge at the recycling area. It's intended to keep people from pouring it down the drain.
Could be worth looking into
 
Put it back in the jugs/can it came in. It can be re-used many times.

When done with it:
Recycling centers will take it.
Drop off to any restaurant or place with a fryer. They usually have a barrel outside that gets pumped out by a reclaimer.
Find a person who makes biodiesel.
 
I was originally planning on doing exactly what Wally Hayes did and just hose some water into a tarp, then easily spill it out onto the lawn. If I go the oil route, I'd probably get a 4" diameter aluminum air duct, crimp/rivet the ends, and epoxy a ball valve on one end to get it back into the containers.

I think what we'll probably end up doing is going for the water treatment first and hope for the best, simply because we are having fun with this. And if at first we don't succeed, give up and move on to oil LOL. I'll have to talk to my friend. I struck a deal with him that he'll pay for all materials and the forge to HT in return for my help. And I get the forge. Funnily enough he's also paying me to build him a computer. This friendship isn't dying any time soon ;)
 
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