Trying to understand why, so let's discuss it

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I started off with slippies like most in the 80’s , father got me into collecting traditionals mostly used or hand me downs from family but most especially if multi bladed would have tips snapped and completely broken blades. So there is something in stronger more capable options however some of these pocket barbarian Battle knives are bit much.
 
With all due respect, I think that we have it wrong. Knives are not getting bigger, they are getting smaller. If we look only at pocket knives, many of the modern “tactical” are certainly larger than most of our traditional pocket carry. But, take a broader view and we see that we are shy about carrying fixed blades. Hiking and camping are now light and tight sports; with an emphasis on low impact and sustainability. You don’t see many of those guys hiking into the woods with a full size axe over their shoulder and a bowie on their belt. Many places restrict camp fires or wood harvesting, so wood processing in general is becoming rare, and carrying a large knife in one of the popular and crowded parks is guaranteed to get you noticed for all of the wrong reasons.

If the pocket knives seem to be getting bigger, it is because people are trying to compensate for their inability to carry the proper tools.

n2s
 
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Hickory n steel said:
It seems to me that the average suburbanite may have a lot more boxes to open in a week but overall not face any materials that are any tougher to cut than say 50-60 years ago, so I'm try to understand why the modern folder is so accepted as the idea of what a pocket knife should be when it's typically larger in every dimension than your typical traditional slipjoint.
Google " pocket knife " and the top results will be modern types.
I understand the clips and studs, those are absolutely convenient but the overall form factor and idea that strength is important is what confuses me.
I know what it's like when you pick up a knife and it feels so great in hand, but I also know what it's like to use an extra small peanut class knife and not even think about how it feels in hand when I'm using it.

I'd love to hear some thoughts and opinions on why modern knives are what they are.

I have already made an inquiry in the Buck section as to some early literature and such on the Buck 110 to truly understand this knife which inadvertently paved the way ( I have two, but never really thought too deeply about why I accepted the size without question ), here I'm just trying to understand why even the little ones are larger in most dimensions than an equivalent traditional.
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It's only that marketing has taken over "supplying an everyday tool". The pocket knife carrying customer market is getting smaller by the day, but bloats more with "trendy" customers. Most of what I see of "modern" knives leaves me cold. But consider the huge diversity it brings : the limited traditional offering you got 40 years ago has broadened to a dazzling and international offer of... "everything and anything". Take your pick !
 
Makers will make what the people will buy, and the people will buy if it has the latest fancy materials and ultra sophisticated machining etc.( nothing wrong with that if its what you are into of course)

If everyone went back to only using traditional patterns and small pocket friendly slipjoints then thats what the makers/companies would make.....it is a business of course and they need to make money.

Just a thought:-)
 
Hickory n steel said:
It seems to me that the average suburbanite may have a lot more boxes to open in a week but overall not face any materials that are any tougher to cut than say 50-60 years ago, so I'm try to understand why the modern folder is so accepted as the idea of what a pocket knife should be when it's typically larger in every dimension than your typical traditional slipjoint.
Google " pocket knife " and the top results will be modern types.
I understand the clips and studs, those are absolutely convenient but the overall form factor and idea that strength is important is what confuses me.
I know what it's like when you pick up a knife and it feels so great in hand, but I also know what it's like to use an extra small peanut class knife and not even think about how it feels in hand when I'm using it.

I'd love to hear some thoughts and opinions on why modern knives are what they are.

I have already made an inquiry in the Buck section as to some early literature and such on the Buck 110 to truly understand this knife which inadvertently paved the way ( I have two, but never really thought too deeply about why I accepted the size without question ), here I'm just trying to understand why even the little ones are larger in most dimensions than an equivalent traditional.
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I'm not sure why you are on a quest to understand. Anyone who has read your posts in the past understands that you are a young man who fancies old timey stuff for whatever reason. And that is just fine. You do you. Buy, use, and enjoy what you like and what works best for you. Spend less time worrying about what other people are doing and trying to promote your ways, and worry about your self and your own experience.

The modern folder has what many would consider distinct advantages over the traditional, several of which you mention. Easy one hand opening/closing is not just convenient for many, but it can be a huge advantage just "working around the property". I'm about to go do some work that requires cutting things precariously on a ladder. This is made much easier and safer with a modern OTF automatic knife. Pocket clips are also a distinct advantage many would give to a modern knife. People carry a lot of stuff these days. I personally don't want a folder to be rolling around in the bottom of my pocket when it can easily be clipped off to the side, out of the way. Locking is a safety feature many like. Use of steels with much better edge retention cannot be ignored as something many will consider a huge advantage. A substantial hand filling 3"-4" bladed folder is something people obviously like, myself included.

Traditionals just can't offer what many people want, and that is often why they are not immediately thought of when we think folding knife.

Now, that being said, perhaps the most sold and recognized pocket knife in the world is the SAK. I've got probably 20-30 SAK Classics placed around my house that see a ton of use. So in this sense, I think your worry that the modern OHO clipped folder has taken over is misplaced. And even if your worry isn't misplaced, and the OHO modern folder has taken over, who cares! Your beloved traditionals aren't going anywhere. Just buy, carry, and use what you like. Stop thinking about what everyone else has in their pocket.
 
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Evolution. Cell phones 20 years ago made calls just fine. TVs years ago displayed tv shows. Technology made them better.

The best part about the knife industry is that we can still buy traditional knives that were designed 50 years ago. Imagine going to a chevy dealer and the salesman says, so which Camaro, traditional ( ex: 69 style) or modern (2020). That would be awesome.
 
When I used to throw 60lb bags of masonry in the mixer all day, the modern clipped to my right pocket (usually a red box Benchmade) was my preferred tool. Open, cut, close, pocket...and repeat. My boss would have been furious if he saw me trying to do the same thing with the SAK in my other pocket.
There’s a place for moderns as well as traditionals, but you gotta pick the right tool for the job.
 
A 1993 Ford Escort will get me back and forth to work, but there is something about pulling up in the lot in a Raptor that makes me giggle a little! Same with knives.
 
I have pretty bad anxiety and ADHD. Flicking/flipping a knife open and closed calms me down.

I started carrying a modern folder when I was 17 for the cool, tactical factor, and typical teenage delusions of grandeur. That was 24 years ago, and my first modern one hand opener was a SOG Pentagon Elite liner lock.

Tactical type knives were really becoming popular, and I became a SOG fanboy for close to 20 years. Sure I owned a few Kershaws, CRKT, and a few others.

After my strokes in 2018, my anxiety, ADHD, and OCD got exponentially worse. Quick open knives help.

Yes I live in a suburb, though a rural part. Most of my use is cutting open boxes, tape, toys for the nephews, etc. Light duty tasks.

I've ditched most of my big heavy knives and prefer lightweight.

When I was younger, say up to about 8 years ago, I did a lot of camping and canoeing. 3 times or more every summer on canoe trips with about 20 people. We camp the night before at a place with no water, no electricity. Well, one part had electricity, but it was for the campground people.

We'd pitch our tents, etc, then get drunk, blast music, etc. Then in the morning it was an all day canoe trip. I carried a hatchet, a SOG Seal Pup, and a modern folder. Chopping wood, pounding in stakes, etc.

After those trips fizzled out, things went awry, and I've rarely used a fixed blade. Though I do want one of @horsewight fixed blades in Damascus, just because they are cool.

This is a world where convenience is everything. Drive thru restaurants and delivery, grocery delivery, etc. And a one hand opener is part of it.

Talk about SUV'S and crossovers. So much easier for my 6'3" frame to get into one. I don't think I could fold myself into the Camaro I once had. Certainly not frequently.
 
Part of the overbuilt thing is that your folder would now act as your folder and your fixed blade. Maybe it can, but for many they just land up with a weak fixed blade substitute and a poorer cutter for their real needs.
 
craytab said:
I'm not sure why you are on a quest to understand.
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Because I like knives, used to love modern knives, and would like to have an understanding of why / how the knife world took the turn it took.

I don't want to just go on thinking people were tricked by marketing ( though I do think I was as a kid by Lynn Thompson)
 
Given the incredible diversity of modern knives I think almost any attempt to paint them in broad strokes is more a reflection of the speaker's personal bias than the reality of what folding knives have become. It might be generally true that modern folders have thicker blade stock and grinds than traditionals, but there are plenty of moderns with thin stock that slice incredibly well. I think traditional knives are beautiful and still have a place, but they absolutely cannot compare to modern folders when it comes to diversity of choice. If you want small modern folders there are plenty out there for you to find, as well as plenty of medium, large, extra large and quite a few that border on the absurd.
 
If you peel the layers of advertisements, hype and BS, today's knives have evolved to be better cutting tools which makes them safer for use. Believe it or not, a non locking pocket knife isn't meant for everyone.
I can remember cutting cast iron with a hammer, chisel and a crescent wrench. Today, I have chain cutters that do that task. Major improvement for the tools I use which is a sign of the times.
IMO, any tool that can be improved to make tasks easier, safer and less time consuming is a good thing.
 
Oh, another factor in this conversation is survivors bias. We look at traditional knives and think, "well, these designs have stood the test of time, no need for stronger knives with better locks!" but before I found Bladeforums I was a little kid that still loved knives and found them at flea markets. And you know what I saw a TON of at those flea markets? Old traditionals with the tip broken off or the blade snapped in half because someone was using their knife as a prybar or a screwdriver. So maybe, just maybe, some manufacturers made thicker, heavier, stronger knives because they knew a lot of people were gonna do dumb stuff with them and a big, thick, strong knife that isn't broken beats the heck out of a slim, lightweight slicer that is. ;)
 
I think in any given point in history you can find people waxing poetic for the "good ole days" when things and times were simpler. It's only the current (at that time) improved conditions of all things that allow such mental folly.

If you went back a hundred years or more and plunked down buckets of Spyderco Dragonfly 2's and Delica 4's outside of markets and hardware stores with "FREE" signs, they might be slow to move at first but once people got used to them, they'd start disappearing pretty quickly. I know there was a time when stainless was shunned for being hard to sharpen but that was the steel of the time, not "modern" VG10.

"No Mr. Farmer it won't rust."

"That's right Mr. Carpenter, it is very easy to get in and out of your pocket while holding stuff with your other hand."

"Correct Mr. Mechanic, you can get gunk in it and then just spray it out, let it dry and move on."

To me, the Dragonfly is basically the evolution of the Peanut and the Delica of the Trapper. I have numerous Traditional knives that I enjoy but I don't confuse them with the evolution and improvement of modern day offerings.
 
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I'm sure this would horrify OP, but I'd rather have a 20 dollar Kershaw than just about any traditional folder ever made. The advantage of modern pocket knives are numerous, as dictated above by others, and I don't know why I'd ever want to reach for a traditional style folder which is just more annoying to use and more limiting. I don't even like the aesthetics of the vast majority of traditionals.

Small knives suck. I will only pick a small knife if there's some sort of legality issue with carrying a larger one, or if I physically cannot fit a 4" bladed folder in my pocket. The only thing that goes in my right front pocket is a knife, so I neither care nor notice how large or heavy they are. I prefer how a larger knife feels in hand, and a longer blade is way better for food prep (important for me).
 
Everyone gets their itch scratched by something different in this hobby. Different strokes and all. For me, I find different locks and opening mechanisms fascinating. These are most commonly found (although not exclusively) on modern pocketknives. I also won't carry a knife without a pocket clip, one handed opening, and some sort of lock.

I think the vast majority of us on Bladeforums are way past what is strictly "needed" in a pocketknife anyway. Buy and use what makes you happy. If that's a traditional barlow or a Richmade Knives Zombie Killer, then you do you. There's never been a better time for pocketknives. The sheer variety and, more importantly, access to everything through the internet really provides something for everyone.
 
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Hickory n steel Hickory n steel Fantastic concept for a thread! I know you like the old designs and have gravitated to them. I have done the same thing after a modern knife binge from around 2000-2015. I still liked the traditionals and I mean traditionals with traditional materials or at least design. Even traditionals have changed with modern scale materials over the age old bone. I still prefer jigged bone overall with them by the way... They can be a thing of beauty if done well for me.

Many would argue that the modern knife is better and often safer to use. I can see their reasoning. I'm not convinced but for the most part modern knives have evolved to replace the need for a fixed blade, almost always have some sort of blade lock, and features which allow for one handed opening if you want to do it that way. I generally still open most of them two handed unless it's a flipper. Not into autos and drifted away from AO's... sorry. So, it has been an evolution of design. The trend is one bladed folders. I still prefer two and the second blade is for "just in case" use mostly.

I have read every post. All have made good points. Even the car analogies fit somewhat. I do not want to go back to a '68 GTO or even the '68 Mustangs ever. I think the market has just evolved incredibly to provide wide design choices in knives. I do think the trend overall is toward smaller knives. I've done the big stuff.... they have become special use tools for me. I do like that we have a mix of old and new now to satisfy just about everyone. If you prefer the modern features, you buy a modern knife. If you don't care or want simplicity in the old sense, then you go with traditional knives of some sort with our without modern materials.
 
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