TS Prof Kadet v KME sharpening system?

[MolokaiRider]

I have had and used a KME for about seven years now, and I never had any luck getting even bevels. Tried all tricks, watched all instructional videos.

What I found, is that my example was built in a way that the clamps would always be uneven. After many, many knives being messed up, and then to finally see that it was never going to work without replacing the clamps, left a bad taste in my mouth.

I paid a pretty penny for the whole lot and another set of natural stones, as the intent was to use it to set even bevels at my preferred angles.

I am sure I could buy another clamp, but have not spent the energy in doing so. TBH it kinda made me mad enough to throw it in a bin and now I just hand sharpen.

 

[777 Edge]

I have had and used a KME for about seven years now, and I never had any luck getting even bevels. Tried all tricks, watched all instructional videos.

What I found, is that my example was built in a way that the clamps would always be uneven. After many, many knives being messed up, and then to finally see that it was never going to work without replacing the clamps, left a bad taste in my mouth.

I paid a pretty penny for the whole lot and another set of natural stones, as the intent was to use it to set even bevels at my preferred angles.

I am sure I could buy another clamp, but have not spent the energy in doing so. TBH it kinda made me mad enough to throw it in a bin and now I just hand sharpen.

Yes, this one of the major weaknesses of the KME system and it seems like they are not interested in addressing it and fixing it properly, other than recommending wedges, pieces of leather etc to "fill the gaps" so to say. It is not a versatile clamp at all.

Gritomatic will be releasing a clamp bar for the KME system, with optional aftermarket clamps soon - so don't throw away your KME just yet. You can make it work a lot better soon.

 

[MolokaiRider]

Yes, this one of the major weaknesses of the KME system and it seems like they are not interested in addressing it and fixing it properly, other than recommending wedges, pieces of leather etc to "fill the gaps" so to say. It is not a versatile clamp at all.

Gritomatic will be releasing a clamp bar for the KME system, with optional aftermarket clamps soon - so don't throw away your KME just yet. You can make it work a lot better soon.

That is great news, as it would be wonderful to have this tool work as it is intended.

The idea is good, especially for shorter blades in the four inch or less category.

 

[777 Edge]

That is great news, as it would be wonderful to have this tool work as it is intended.

The idea is good, especially for shorter blades in the four inch or less category.

You should also be able to do slightly longer blades with the upgrade too, with 2 aftermarket clamps on the KME.

It may be worth contacting Gritomatic to find out when they will start selling the KME upgrades. They have some epic KME upgrades coming soon apparently, including a fine tuning angle system, upgraded stone holders for aftermarket stones, and a few other great upgrades.

I would still go for a Hapstone system and perhaps sell the KME, if I were you. But if you want to give it a refresh first that may suit your needs then perhaps contact Gritomatic.

 

[MolokaiRider]

You should also be able to do slightly longer blades with the upgrade too, with 2 aftermarket clamps on the KME.

It may be worth contacting Gritomatic to find out when they will start selling the KME upgrades. They have some epic KME upgrades coming soon apparently, including a fine tuning angle system, upgraded stone holders for aftermarket stones, and a few other great upgrades.

I would still go for a Hapstone system and perhaps sell the KME, if I were you. But if you want to give it a refresh first that may suit your needs then perhaps contact Gritomatic.

Thanks for the info. You may have helped breathe new life in my KME.

 

[scottc3]

What I found, is that my example was built in a way that the clamps would always be uneven.

That's terrible, What did customer support do when you contacted them? I can't imagine Ron or Brian not wanting to at least see pics, examine unit and make it right? Never heard about this problem before in all my searching, but remember several folks demonstrating on utubes and picture, their clone clamps were not correctly made and did not work. I knocked the unit off a table about 3 feet high once and it was fine, though it caused me concern until I sharpened a new to me knife.

Yes, this one of the major weaknesses of the KME system and it seems like they are not interested in addressing it and fixing it properly, other than recommending wedges, pieces of leather etc to "fill the gaps" so to say.

Are you confusing clones with Ron's KME units 777 Edge? Please reference folks reporting the same problem AND reports of KME not wanting to fix their clamps that do not work? Pics would work.

Gritomatic will be releasing a clamp bar for the KME system, with optional aftermarket clamps soon - so don't throw away your KME just yet. You can make it work a lot better soon.

I emailed them when I saw your post, looking forward to seeing the parts and seeing reviews.

 

[scottc3]

OP, here is my notes for approximation of microns for KME diamonds from a calculator Brian from KME referenced with usual caviates when I asked via email.

Micron to Grit Conversion Calculator

Micron to grit calculator to convert grit to micron size. Easily convert grit to micron and micron to grit.

www.bestsharpeningstones.com

KME Diamond Stones w KIT: (100 grit or 163μm added), 140 grit or 118.7μm, 300 = 45 μm/ 57.8, 600 = 10?/30μm, 1500 GRIT = 12.6 μm.

 

[MolokaiRider]

That's terrible, What did customer support do when you contacted them? I can't imagine Ron or Brian not wanting to at least see pics, examine unit and make it right? Never heard about this problem before in all my searching, but remember several folks demonstrating on utubes and picture, their clone clamps were not correctly made and did not work. I knocked the unit off a table about 3 feet high once and it was fine, though it caused me concern until I sharpened a new to me knife.

Are you confusing clones with Ron's KME units 777 Edge? Please reference folks reporting the same problem AND reports of KME not wanting to fix their clamps that do not work? Pics would work.

I emailed them when I saw your post, looking forward to seeing the parts and seeing reviews.

I did not contact them to give them an opportunity to send new clamps. I would imagine they would offer me new ones. It is a quality product, I just have not made time to call.

 

[777 Edge]

Are you confusing clones with Ron's KME units 777 Edge?

No, I am not referring to clones. I am referring to the original KME clamping system, it's inability to clamp many knife grinds adequately and the fact that you can't support longer blades properly with it.

The KME clamp works well on only a very limited amount of knives, because of how the clamp works - it is engineered to be limited in it's movement mechanically. The back of the clamp can not open more to conform with all blade grinds because it is mechanically restricted by the back plate that it is mounted in - a basic engineering fact. You can't squeeze a square shape into a round hole, or use a 1/4 spanner to tighten every nut you find , so to say figuratively.

With this type of clamp setup, the only solution would be if the back of the clamp had a large range of opening motion (so the front could align with whatever you're trying to clamp), or if you had various clamps with different geometry. There is no arguing the laws of mechanics. The inadequate solution has always been to recommend small scraps of leather, wedges or to tell guys to pinch the clamp more before tightening it. It helps a little bit, yes, but no amount of pinching can overcome the mechanical limits of the clamping system. Wedges, scraps of leather etc. is not a proper solution.

Another issue that you can't overcome with the KME system is properly supporting thin, longer blades. You need at least a second clamp to stop the blade from flexing, and KME only has one clamp.

Try out a variety of different manufacturer's clamps for yourself and you'll see how much better you can actually clamp your knives.

 

[3D Anvil]

I've had no problem clamping any knife with my KME. It's actually a very clever design that rotates and pivots to fit a variety of blade shapes. As far as long blades, the clamp isn't the limiting factor, but rather the relatively small size of the system (distance of the pivot point to the edge).

 

[scottc3]

The KME clamp works well on only a very limited amount of knives, because of how the clamp works - it is engineered to be limited in it's movement mechanically. The back of the clamp can not open more to conform with all blade grinds because it is mechanically restricted by the back plate that it is mounted in - a basic engineering fact.

Glad to see your detailing the KME compromises 777 Edge. Never had a problem, but thought a thick chunk of cow hide would help the jaws conform to blades with complex grinds, like Brad Zinker's Dogtooth and the like, so far so good. Once the blades are secure, I find the clamping force available by bearing down on the big plastic wing nut amazingly strong. And, the clamping system is tool-less at that. I remember being surprised that the clamp assembly did not bend or sag under a big bushcraft blade Ron sharpened over at KME's utube.

With this type of clamp setup, the only solution would be if the back of the clamp had a large range of opening motion (so the front could align with whatever you're trying to clamp), or if you had various clamps with different geometry.

My KME jaws allow for an opening wide enough for any knife I have tried sharpening, though the thickest knife I have sharpened is an Adamas. The jaw's backing plate offers little practical opening limit or restrictions. The practical limit is the jaw length front to back, and Ron's stock clamps two registration marks define the engineered front to back limit with reference to stone holder location.

Another issue that you can't overcome with the KME system is properly supporting thin, longer blades. You need at least a second clamp to stop the blade from flexing, and KME only has one clamp.

Huh? I have a pile of kitchen and fishing knives that sharpen up nicely on the KME. Second clamps have there utility without a doubt, but if the filet knife is bending, too much pressure is being applied.

 

[scottc3]

Try out a variety of different manufacturer's clamps for yourself and you'll see how much better you can actually clamp your knives.

Reading through and responding to your posts made me realize we see engineering differently. All I see are 20th century clamping with fasteners, other then magnetic coupling which is in its infancy. Tool-less clamps require engineering, and I think the KME is a solid design holding up well over time. Yes, I would like to have a knife table available, ala EdgePro / Hapstone for quick touchups, and multi-clamp, or rail, for longer / thicker blades, but I'm happy with the KME kit even though I continue to get accessories that expand utility.

 

[3D Anvil]

If one really wanted to improve on the KME design, in my opinion the best way to do it would be to simply scale the whole thing up by around 25%. That would allow for longer knives (without reclamping) and lower angles. I'd also use tighter tolerances for the base/handle connection to provide for more accurate angle measurement.

 

[scottc3]

3D Anvil, remember you can flip the stone holder carrier to go below 15 degrees. You know sizing it up 25% sounds interesting. I have check angles many times with a phone app in the beginning of my use and it always was within a degree or two which proved OK, as my bevels are mostly even heel to tip and side to side. Now getting a factory bevel even heel to tip sometimes requires doing a reprofile.

 

[3D Anvil]

Yeah, I've used the upside-down trick, but that basically takes the stone thickness compensator out of the equation, which is a bit of pain for me because I use a variety of stones/strops.

As far as angle measurement, I've attached a steel strip to the top of the stone holder so I can slap an angle cube on there. I've calculated that with the unit on the base and canted all the way forward, the measurement is almost exactly 2° higher than the actual angle, due to the slop in the base/handle connection. Not a big deal to subtract two, but in a perfect world the clamp section would just sit level when mounted on the base.

 

[CyBuzz]

Well I have been over thinking this since Christmas. I was set on getting a KME system and ended up with a WE100 for a Christmas gift. I didn't really want the base WE system and the cost was too prohibitive to upgrade so I returned it. I was getting ready to order the KME and read through this and other threads. I had looked into the TSPROF and Hapstone also and this thread(old as it is) helped me decide on the Hapstone R2 with diamond stones and other recommended parts.

Thanks you to everyone and the discussion in this thread. Now I will just wait for my package from Gritomatic.

 

[Blade Lab]

Good choice on the R2. I have the R1, which is basically a bigger version of the R2, and it's a fine system.

 

[777 Edge]

Well I have been over thinking this since Christmas. I was set on getting a KME system and ended up with a WE100 for a Christmas gift. I didn't really want the base WE system and the cost was too prohibitive to upgrade so I returned it. I was getting ready to order the KME and read through this and other threads. I had looked into the TSPROF and Hapstone also and this thread(old as it is) helped me decide on the Hapstone R2 with diamond stones and other recommended parts.

Thanks you to everyone and the discussion in this thread. Now I will just wait for my package from Gritomatic.

Congratulations! Great choice, I'm sure you'll love it.

 

[kane22]

I did not contact them to give them an opportunity to send new clamps. I would imagine they would offer me new ones. It is a quality product, I just have not made time to call.

Shoot them an email and I'm sure they would take care of you. Mine is spot on, and I've never had the rubber come loose either. I've heard of people having issues with the clamps on other systems not being the same angle from one side to the other too. Having to sand one side down or bend them slightly to get them even. Like I always say when this question comes up...all of them seem to have some small quarks you have to learn to work around. You should get really nice results with any of them.

For me the KME clamping system is quick, easy, and most importantly repeatable every time. Now if you're sharpening a lot 6 inch plus knives I'd look harder at something else. Like others have said, I like having the option to pick it up and sharpen how ever feels comfortable to you, and get a good look at your edge.

I do find myself checking out the hapstone systems from time to time. If I was starting from scratch, it would be them or KME.