Tsprof problem

[Darth Garry]

I am a greenhorn to sharpening and recently brought the Tsprof. I went through all the calibration and nothing is out by more that .30 of a degree as stated in the setup manual. My problem is that even after going through all the supplied stones, 120 to 1000, and even continuing on with a 3000 and 8000 grit I still have a dull edge.
I am raising a burr then flipping the knife raising a burr on the opposing side then working my ways up through the stones. My final stone I stroke in a downwards motion 12 times on each side, decreasing by 2 each time until I get down to 0. I am sharpening on a 20 degree angle, when I reduce that to around 13 degrees it seems to give a sharper finish, but still not great, and that angle is too fine I think.
I know its difficult to diagnose this problem through a message but I'm getting frustrated with myself. If you can see or suggest anything I might be doing wrong that would be appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[Diemaker]

Try +1 degree, like 21 degrees from 20, for the last stone. It helps make sure the last stone is on the apex.

 

[wade7575]

Try getting different stones the supplied stones are not that good at all and although they work I really didn't care for them at all,check out sharpeningstones.ru and Gritomatic.

The Gritalon stones that sharpeningstones.ru sell's are supposed to be half decent stones also look at getting a full set of the Venev stones from Gritomatic,what I do not like about the supplied stones is the way they wear and the way a layer seemed to get scraped off rather then worn down,the Gritalons are Silicon Carbide as well but are not from the same supplier.
The diamond stones that TSProf carries are the Venev stones as well but are not mounted to a blank and I really don't like that style of mounting I have always preferred the ege pro style of mounting with a blank much more.

Also always check the angle of the guide rod every time you change stones as that can affect your edge geometry,with any water type stone and most others it will pretty much always be this way the lower the grit the faster the stone will wear witch means a thinner stone and the higher the grit less it will wear and it will stay thicker longer,what happens is the angle will change a bit and it will be more on older stones where they have more wear on them I the lower grit's were used a lot.

I am a greenhorn to sharpening and recently brought the Tsprof. I went through all the calibration and nothing is out by more that .30 of a degree as stated in the setup manual. My problem is that even after going through all the supplied stones, 120 to 1000, and even continuing on with a 3000 and 8000 grit I still have a dull edge.
I am raising a burr then flipping the knife raising a burr on the opposing side then working my ways up through the stones. My final stone I stroke in a downwards motion 12 times on each side, decreasing by 2 each time until I get down to 0. I am sharpening on a 20 degree angle, when I reduce that to around 13 degrees it seems to give a sharper finish, but still not great, and that angle is too fine I think.
I know its difficult to diagnose this problem through a message but I'm getting frustrated with myself. If you can see or suggest anything I might be doing wrong that would be appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[Hytekrednek]

Maybe sharpen a couple other different knives to see if possibly the steel in the first knife is the problem. A strop may help you out too at the end of your process. I suggest using the stones wet, I use water with a bit of simple green added. I have a k02 and I get great results from the stock stones that come with the pro kit. I have gotten some other stones to add to the choices I have, but the stones it came with work ok too.
Try some other blades and maybe get some good pics of the edge if you still have trouble. Post the pics on here I maybe someone can help spot the issue. Good luck. I love my K02

 

[Darth Garry]

Try getting different stones the supplied stones are not that good at all and although they work I really didn't care for them at all,check out sharpeningstones.ru and Gritomatic.

The Gritalon stones that sharpeningstones.ru sell's are supposed to be half decent stones also look at getting a full set of the Venev stones from Gritomatic,what I do not like about the supplied stones is the way they wear and the way a layer seemed to get scraped off rather then worn down,the Gritalons are Silicon Carbide as well but are not from the same supplier.
The diamond stones that TSProf carries are the Venev stones as well but are not mounted to a blank and I really don't like that style of mounting I have always preferred the ege pro style of mounting with a blank much more.

Also always check the angle of the guide rod every time you change stones as that can affect your edge geometry,with any water type stone and most others it will pretty much always be this way the lower the grit the faster the stone will wear witch means a thinner stone and the higher the grit less it will wear and it will stay thicker longer,what happens is the angle will change a bit and it will be more on older stones where they have more wear on them I the lower grit's were used a lot.

Thank you for your reply I will order some different stones.

 

[Darth Garry]

Maybe sharpen a couple other different knives to see if possibly the steel in the first knife is the problem. A strop may help you out too at the end of your process. I suggest using the stones wet, I use water with a bit of simple green added. I have a k02 and I get great results from the stock stones that come with the pro kit. I have gotten some other stones to add to the choices I have, but the stones it came with work ok too.
Try some other blades and maybe get some good pics of the edge if you still have trouble. Post the pics on here I maybe someone can help spot the issue. Good luck. I love my K02

This may be a stupid question, but does the edge have to be mirrored to be in the razor sharp category?

 

[bucketstove]

This may be a stupid question, but does the edge have to be mirrored to be in the razor sharp category?

Hi,
Mirror not required,
though it takes more experience/know-how with lower grits

See bottom of coticule.be/hanging-hair-test

Remember, these razor guys are using binder clip-on angle guides low angles and light alternating strokes ... and low carbide volume steels ... different faces different comfort levels, I've shaved comfortably with a blade that scored HHT-0 or below, but I dont shave often and my beard is a little thicker than printer paper


You can find lots of examples like
me2: I've gotten edges that will whittle my beard hair using my coarsest stone, a 220 grit King water stone. Drop you're edge angle down to less than 10 degrees per side, and finish on a coarse stone with as sharp an edge as you can get. It will do dedicated cutting/slicing chores for a LONG time. I've also gotten edges that will whittle head hair after just a 1000 grit King water stone and a Fine India stone also. These are pretty good general purpose edges, and can both push cut and slice adequately.

Thats single stone sharpening with the stone at an angle

 

[Darth Garry]

Hi,
Mirror not required,
though it takes more experience/know-how with lower grits

See bottom of coticule.be/hanging-hair-test

Remember, these razor guys are using binder clip-on angle guides low angles and light alternating strokes ... and low carbide volume steels ... different faces different comfort levels, I've shaved comfortably with a blade that scored HHT-0 or below, but I dont shave often and my beard is a little thicker than printer paper


You can find lots of examples like
me2: I've gotten edges that will whittle my beard hair using my coarsest stone, a 220 grit King water stone. Drop you're edge angle down to less than 10 degrees per side, and finish on a coarse stone with as sharp an edge as you can get. It will do dedicated cutting/slicing chores for a LONG time. I've also gotten edges that will whittle head hair after just a 1000 grit King water stone and a Fine India stone also. These are pretty good general purpose edges, and can both push cut and slice adequately.

Thats single stone sharpening with the stone at an angle

So for a kitchen knife a razor edge is probably overkill, not durable enough?

 

[Ajack60]

So for a kitchen knife a razor edge is probably overkill, not durable enough?

Depends on the steel, I’ve got some kitchen knives in 10V and M4. I do sharpen them to where they’ll stick when the blade touches the cutting board. I’m the only one using the knives, so I know how sharp they are. I don’t waste the time to get my Henckels that sharp. I’ve found that they just won’t hold an edge very long. The two knives I bring to work to use for kitchen duty don’t get sharpened to the stupid level. Two people have gotten bit not knowing how sharp they were. So, I don’t do that anymore.

 

[Hytekrednek]

no, a mirror edge is not required to function good. A finely stropped apex does help though. I adjust the level of sharpening to the task it is for and the steel it is made from. I do put a nice mirror edge on my EDC knives.

 

[wade7575]

Another thing you can try is when your sharpening and before you change grit's and move onto the next stone try cleaning the edge of the knife off and take a peace of paper and hold it at the top and bottom and push it into the edge of the knife and feel the resistance and each time you move up to the next grit it should get easier each time with less resistance,I sometimes do this on certain steels like S110v when using stones that are not the fastest cutting to let me know how I'm doing,I find that S110v does not raise much of a bur if any at all.

 

[bucketstove]

So for a kitchen knife a razor edge is probably overkill, not durable enough?

Hi,
it depends by what you mean "razor edge"
If you mean head hair whittling ready to shave your face with ... yup definitely overkill
If you just mean high grits (high polish) ... depends on how you use your knife, higher polish is supposed to last longer in chopping tasks, ...
Try it out and see what works for you

The way I use kitchen knives, it doesn't even have to slice printer paper

 

[Hytekrednek]

I like to have 1 small and 1 medium or large knife very very sharp, and 2 or 3 of the other knives are just average sharp for a kitchen knife. Super sharp for carving and similar chores, the rest for chopping or tough task hard on edges. I would be fine with them all super sharp, but that is just more work, so I keep the kitchen knives at 2 levels of sharpness depending on the uses the knife will do.

 

[wade7575]

An important question that was never asked and I should have caught it myself and didn't until I went back and reread this thread and the question is what kind of knives are you trying to sharpen are trying to sharpen kitchen knives made by Kitchenaid Cuisinart or Chicago Cutlery if so your not going to see amazing result's from those steels,it will help but nothing incredible trust my I know I have family that brings me theirs every so often to sharpen and I sharpen them at 15 degrees preside but they do not get very sharp,the reason is the steel that is used in these knives is cheap and does not take a very good edge either.

I have Japanese Chef knives made from ZDP-189 Hap40 and Shirogami #1 and they will take an extremely sharp edge and not's just because I sharpen them to 10.5 degrees per-side it's also the quality of the steel as well.Look at chefknivestogo to see really good kitchen knives if you don't already have some.

I am a greenhorn to sharpening and recently brought the Tsprof. I went through all the calibration and nothing is out by more that .30 of a degree as stated in the setup manual. My problem is that even after going through all the supplied stones, 120 to 1000, and even continuing on with a 3000 and 8000 grit I still have a dull edge.
I am raising a burr then flipping the knife raising a burr on the opposing side then working my ways up through the stones. My final stone I stroke in a downwards motion 12 times on each side, decreasing by 2 each time until I get down to 0. I am sharpening on a 20 degree angle, when I reduce that to around 13 degrees it seems to give a sharper finish, but still not great, and that angle is too fine I think.
I know its difficult to diagnose this problem through a message but I'm getting frustrated with myself. If you can see or suggest anything I might be doing wrong that would be appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[bucketstove]

An important question that was never asked and I should have caught it myself and didn't until I went back and reread this thread and the question is what kind of knives are you trying to sharpen are trying to sharpen kitchen knives made by Kitchenaid Cuisinart or Chicago Cutlery if so your not going to see amazing result's from those steels,it will help but nothing incredible trust my I know I have family that brings me theirs every so often to sharpen and I sharpen them at 15 degrees preside but they do not get very sharp,the reason is the steel that is used in these knives is cheap and does not take a very good edge either.

I have Japanese Chef knives made from ZDP-189 Hap40 and Shirogami #1 and they will take an extremely sharp edge and not's just because I sharpen them to 10.5 degrees per-side it's also the quality of the steel as well.Look at chefknivestogo to see really good kitchen knives if you don't already have some.

Hi,
Do your folks use chef steels/hones/burnishing rods? Cut on plates?
Are the knives coming as-damaged as before or less damaged?
What is very sharp?

It could be all you're seeing is fatigue from frequent steeling, and before you can get sharp you need to cut that off.


High sharpness is possible

The first knives I was able to sharpen to literal hair-whittling have been some rather 'lowly' stainless steels, such as Case's 420HC (Tru-Sharp) and some unknown-variety of Chinese stainless in an $8 'Chicago Cutlery' kitchen utility knife purchased at Walmart. I had used guided systems to put edges on those, so my own 'skills' at the time had little to do with it. But the 'cheap' steels really surprised me, in the edges they're capable of taking (holding them is another story).

Even with some of the cheaper stainless at low RC it can be done - just sharpened up my trust Chicago cutlery utility knife (the one the wife uses most often) on a coffee cup. Hit the unglazed ring to raise a burr and remove, flipped it over and 'steeled' it on the glazed side - was sharp enough to dryshave my jawline with very little tugging. Won't hold the edge long, but is very easy to get it right back.


And if your folks are getting more used to sharp well cutting knives, and are starting to avoid cutting on plates, It could also be time to improve cutting ability by drop some edge angles

I have one Chicago Cutlery knife my wife prefers above all the others iin the kitchen, their short Santoku, called a Partoku. . It was about 7 dollars at the local market. I rebeved it to 12 degrees per side with a 15 degree microbevel and tried to see how much cardboard it would cut before it stopped slicing paper. I quit at 3000 feet. It would still slice paper and cut a folded piece standing on the corner of the table. It wouldn't leave the bottom sitting on the table, but both pieces landed Olin a pile on the floor just at the table base.


A note about these three blades and sharpening. It takes less than five minutes to go from end of test dull to hair whittling sharp on the Norton stone

 

[wade7575]

Don't get me wrong they go back sharper then they were but the thing is the steels that Kitchenaid and others like them do not use steels that have the greatest edge retention,I agree that Chicago Cutlery is probably better then a lot of the other easy to find cheaper knives but I still prefer a good Japanese chef knife any day.