TTT chart for 80CrV2?

i4Marc

i4Marc

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Oct 19, 2011
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Anyone have a TTT chart or a link to a chart for 80CrV2?

Or, does anyone know how long to get past the PN?
 
This is just a guess, but I understand that steel to be the same as 1080+, which is 1080 with a touch of Cr and a touch of V....and just a touch. Maybe to make it a bit more deep hardening (.60 Cr) and then just to help the grain (.20 V). Would that little alloying affect the curve...I don't really think it would too much, if anything give you a split second? Oh wait a minute...it does have a little less Mn... (.42 compared to 1080s .75), so that may push it the other way too, maybe negating that split second. I would love to have TTT charts for all the formulations we are using right now for sure. I think the pearl nose for 1080 is right around 1 second.....I go with that (in my head anyway).
 
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I spoke with a well known expert on heat treat, and he thought 80CRV2 would do best with an oil quench. Parks50 would not be needed. Heat treat similar to O1, but maybe a bit higher in the austentizing temp, say 1500f.
 
Wow, 1545˚-1615˚ austenitize according to AKS. I couldn't wait so I already quenched and am in the tempering process right now. I austenitized at 1500˚ with a 10 minute soak. I hope that will work. Quenched in P50. I'm tempering @ 375˚ but may have to temper back after edge testing.
 
I did one at 1485, 10 min soak, and with a 400f temper, came out at Rc63. My guess is its like 52100. Lower temps will result in finer grain, higher temps will result in larger carbides. Its nicknamed 52100 lite. I read it will get a mild hamon, which is why I went lower (W2 was not available when I bought this bar to try.)There's a smudgy transition there, but it isn't worth the effort when so many great steels are available for a hamon.
 
I haven't etched any of my 80CrV2 blades yet but I can tell you they definitely do make hamons. Based on your results Willie I am a bit more confident that this one will be ok. It is in it's last temper cycle now. I'll snap a pic when it's out of the oven.
 
Willie71 said:
I did one at 1485, 10 min soak, and with a 400f temper, came out at Rc63. My guess is its like 52100. Lower temps will result in finer grain, higher temps will result in larger carbides. Its nicknamed 52100 lite. I read it will get a mild hamon, which is why I went lower (W2 was not available when I bought this bar to try.)There's a smudgy transition there, but it isn't worth the effort when so many great steels are available for a hamon.
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Just to be a picky SOB, higher temps will give smaller carbides, maybe none. That little chromium will affect things, but it's not as deep hardening as O1. As soon as I find my book, I'll look it up.
 
Around 7 seconds to beat the perlite nose. I have a ttt chart for it but I'm on my phone at the moment. I'll post it up later.
 
me2 said:
Just to be a picky SOB, higher temps will give smaller carbides, maybe none. That little chromium will affect things, but it's not as deep hardening as O1. As soon as I find my book, I'll look it up.
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I think you are right...higher temperature and the austenite will eat carbides, so you may get some RA and little to none carbides.
Willie's numbers, by the way are spot on :thumbup:
 
me2 said:
Just to be a picky SOB, higher temps will give smaller carbides, maybe none. That little chromium will affect things, but it's not as deep hardening as O1. As soon as I find my book, I'll look it up.
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Ok, I was thinking about this since last night. I agree that higher temps will break down existing carbides, and evenly distribute the alloys throughout the matrix. After grain refinement, you only want to get the steel to go into solution, and quench it in the state you want. If you raise the temp, the grain starts blowing up (after 1510f). Now are we talking about carbon carbides, or chromium carbides? They do different things at different temperatures. Since 80CRV2 is euctoid, there shouldn't be carbon carbides, but the chromium carbides will be what we are dealing with.
 
So is the thinking here not to use the AKS heat treat then, and instead stick to a lower temps? I would really like to try this steel out but HT info is all over the place.
 
I guess I was way off wasn't I? Because I have always heard that 80CrV2 is the same as 1080+. It isn't. Go to AKS and look at 1080+. It is indeed just 1080 with a touch of Cr and a touch of V. However, calling up Zknives chart and plugging in 80CrV2, there are actually two different 80CrV2 listed, one german one english and they are fairly different than 1080+. Even those two formulas given for 80CrV2 are quite different from each other. The Cr is twice in the Eng version than the German. 1080+ is also showing NO nickel, NO moly, which 80CrV2 does have. Apparently the Eng version can have carbon from .45 all the way to 1. I guess the best thing, always, is to know EXACTLY what the chemical formula is. I sure learned a lesson here, check and verify yourself.

As far as heat treat, I would treat it like most low alloy carbon steel. Again, depending on actual carbon content, Austenitizing temp should be around 1475-1500, after normalizing at 1650 and thermal cycling for grain refinement. Into a fast oil or relatively fast oil. parks 50, warm canola. temper at 400F. If the carbon content is high, go with the lower 1475. If it is a low carbon content, go with the higher numbers.
 
Willie71 said:
Ok, I was thinking about this since last night. I agree that higher temps will break down existing carbides, and evenly distribute the alloys throughout the matrix. After grain refinement, you only want to get the steel to go into solution, and quench it in the state you want. If you raise the temp, the grain starts blowing up (after 1510f). Now are we talking about carbon carbides, or chromium carbides? They do different things at different temperatures. Since 80CRV2 is euctoid, there shouldn't be carbon carbides, but the chromium carbides will be what we are dealing with.
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So as not to muck up the thread, email sent.

The austenization temperatures seem high for the AKS web site, but they might be needed, depending on what one is trying to do. 1080+ looks like a slightly lower carbon version of Cruforge, or a lower carbon version of the old 50100B that Camillus used to use. Both are/were good steels.
 
80CRV2 is part of the L2 spec, but not L2 will be 80CRV2. L2 has a large carbon range, but 80CRV2 should be right around 0.8%. Higher carbon lowers austentizing temp, as does nickel. Chromium raises it. I think the AKS heat treat is probably the L2 heat treat, but there will be differences expected at either end of the alloying range.
 
1080+ doesn't come NEAR CruForge V. I know it's easy to look at formulas and say....oh this looks like this so it will behave like it too....and I am super guilty of that. I am the world's worst when it comes to making assumptions!!!!! Look at my post above I thought 1080+ was 80CrV2....wrong answer!!!!! But honestly, it looks like 80CrV2 has quite a bit of variance.....you gotta know exactly what you have (carbon from .45 to 1). 1080+ has only .2 vanadium and only .8 carbon. Cru Forge V has over 1 point of carbon, and .75 vanadium. When there is just .2 vanadium and carbon right at the eutectoid point.....you won't get much in the way of vanadium carbides..that small of vanadium in a .8 carbon is just there to help keep grain small. With .75 vanadium in a hypereutectoid like CruForge V, there is plenty left over carbon and plenty of Vanadium. This translates into a steel that is freaking super difficult to abrade. Abrasion out the wazoo, on a different level than 1080+ or 80CrV2, which are super tough steels.
 
I got the steel from Uncle Aldo. Here are the specs from his website:


Product Description

80CRV2, also known as L2, is a tough as nails work horse of a steel. Excellent for forging and grinding alike, it is our hope that makers will choose this grade over 5160 for many of their projects. Having a very similar heat treat to 5160, it shouldn’t be too much trouble to substitute this steel for many projects.

Chemistry/Certification
Typical Chemistry: Carbon 0.81 Silicon 0.32 Manganese 0.42 Phosphorus 0.006 Sulfur 0.002 Chromium 0.54 Nickel .075 Molybdenum 0.016 Vanadium 0.17
 
"I'll snap a pic when it's out of the oven. " (can I quote myself?)



Here are a couple of pics. Still needs some clean up and an etch.....and a guard and handle.



 
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