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Tuffthumbz pimped a Hinderer xm-24 and did some trash talking on youtube
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YouTube is another animal. On BF, in Rick's subforum, there's nothing to be gained by stirring up sh*t!
BP Green
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:applouse::applouse:
Excellent post Chuck! Seems to be a lot of that around here lately. We don't need it or want it. This is a place where we talk about great knives not BS and drama. . .
Excellent post Chuck! Seems to be a lot of that around here lately. We don't need it or want it. This is a place where we talk about great knives not BS and drama. . .
tuffthumbz
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hey folks! Yeah maybe shouldnt have said anything at all, but i was meeting rick for the first time and i was super geeked out and starstruck (nerd) and i just wanted to show him my work because i love his knives and he kinda made me feel like i was steeling from him. But out of respect for him i wont be doing xm scales anymore. We talked and he was really nice the rest of the time, i just felt like a guy of his level should be supportive of the new guys. I work hard, and i am proud of my work and if that makes me a bit full of myself then im fine with that. Thanks for being respectful in this thread to me. Getting one thing streat, i love hinderer knives, i think they are at the top for custom/semi custom folder!
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Well, I guess if I was a knife maker, and I made a good knife, I made to what I think it should be. If I wanted it to be ground by Tom, I would have made it with a grind like that. If I wanted people have to have scales on my knife like that, I would have made that like that.
The knives do have his name on it and some morons might not know it was done after the fact and may return it to him for warranty work, which would be void. I would think most knife makers would be like too.
The knives do have his name on it and some morons might not know it was done after the fact and may return it to him for warranty work, which would be void. I would think most knife makers would be like too.
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Thanks for your rebuttal to explain things. Makes me feel bad for what I said before. I can understand how you might of felt that he was rude to you from your standpoint, but I can respect that it's his design and he needs to get business too.
You do fine work and I respect that you are going out in your own and making your own knives, don't get me wrong. I just like it when people show respect for others. Nothing personal I hope
tuffthumbz
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thanks bro, rick is a god in the knife world how could i disrespect him 
But the funny part is out of the 400 scales ive made, ive only done one guys hunderer lol
But the funny part is out of the 400 scales ive made, ive only done one guys hunderer lol
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Definitely wouldn't consider it "trash talking" and he has every right to do custom scales for the owners of these knives.
I can understand where Mr. Hinderer would want to keep all the business, but this situation is nothing new.
Tuff made a good point.
If you buy a car are you not entitled to customize it how you'd like? ie. rims, tint, hoods, trunk etc.
When you buy a watch is buying an aftermarket strap wrong?
There are a handful of custom aftermarket scale makers here on BFC that have done a great service for us. :thumbup:
I can understand where Mr. Hinderer would want to keep all the business, but this situation is nothing new.
Tuff made a good point.
If you buy a car are you not entitled to customize it how you'd like? ie. rims, tint, hoods, trunk etc.
When you buy a watch is buying an aftermarket strap wrong?
There are a handful of custom aftermarket scale makers here on BFC that have done a great service for us. :thumbup:
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I watched the video, and I didn't really see any "Trash Talking", maybe some arrogance, but he does do great work, so thats understandable. In a situation like this, you can't really blame either party for their point of view, both seem somewhat justified to me... just my .02
I watched the vid. There was zero trash talking. I also observed zero arrogance. He is selling an option not offered by the original manufacturer, to be installed at the discretion of the end user. It is absurd that he was asked to stop by the original manufacturer and only so many conclusions can be reached as to why. Either Mr Hinderer felt his own scale sales were threatened or he felt that the free hand aspect wasn't on par with the knife and felt threatened that it would reflect poorly on him. Neither of these are based in reality though. He isn't reproducing Hinder's work nor is anybody about to mistake Tuff's work for an OEM scale.
A maker acting unreasonably may be adhominem to the quality of his product, but it is isn't with respect to whether I want to spend my money with them (not that Mr Hinderer gives two shits about my money). It is still a valid discussion topic and anybody saying it isn't, is doing a disservice to the community. I didn't realize sub-forums were just places where fanboys circle jerk each other.
A maker acting unreasonably may be adhominem to the quality of his product, but it is isn't with respect to whether I want to spend my money with them (not that Mr Hinderer gives two shits about my money). It is still a valid discussion topic and anybody saying it isn't, is doing a disservice to the community. I didn't realize sub-forums were just places where fanboys circle jerk each other.
Actually, that isn't a very good point and a poor analogy in my opinion. A more accurate analogy would have been if someone was trying to make a business of making aftermarket replacement parts and toner cartides for Xerox copy machines. This person went to an Office Supply Tradeshow and went to Xerox's booth where Joseph Wilson was located and this person showed off his replacement parts and toner cartridges to Mr. Wilson and Mr. Wilson was not terribly enthused by the style, fit, functionality of the parts for his machines. What would you honestly expect Mr. Wilson to do, be excited and thankful for the competition, particularly if he didn't feel the parts were up to his standards?
I don't disagree, people can customize however and whatever they want to their knife (which may or may not void warranty depending on the mods), some people prefer the quality and fit of OE parts, some don't.
Lastly, keep in mind we are hearing one side and one interpretation of this conversation.
Regards,
Rich
tuffthumbz
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well then this has gotten a bit out of hand. I dont want anyone to get a bad impression of Mr hinderer, i dont know him and this was a bad first impression fallowed by him being very nice the rest of the show. I only got a bit worried about offending him or leaving any bad feelings. Thanks to those who could see that what i said was not offensive or an attack.
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My opinions: 1) The car analogy if PERFECT. The scales are meant to be swapped, and another craftsman has found a niche in customizing and producing these scales. Car rims are meant to be swapped and many company's have offered replacements to fit the buyer's needs and wants. Same in the knife world... IMO.
2) I don't think Tuff was flaming him, I do think he was perfectly justified in mentioning how his attitude was toward the scales. It was more of an aside and afterthought, it wasn't derogatory or inflammatory. I was interested to hear Hinderer's reaction. Now if Geoff would have ran to the forums and started to stir the pot like OP, than that's a different story. His youtube channel is his world.
3) The Xerox thing is way off in being a good analogy. Tuff works with a passion for knives and to help others have one-of-a-kind pieces of functional art, nothing akin to a Xerox machine. I am a big fan of both Hinderer and Tuff, but I would be upset if after dropping $800 on a knife, I wasn't "allowed" to slap a textured piece of G-10 on there to suit my tastes.
4) I would hope Hinderer would change his mind in the attitude of aftermarket parts for his knives. I am no expert in the field of knife economics, so I might be way off base, but it would seem to me that having third parties manufacturing scales would only boost Hinderer's product? Would it not increase sales and interest in the brand? Ipod sales don't go down because people offer customizable skins for them... just saying.
Perhaps Hinderer could license out the ability to create such aftermarket parts and make a tad, along with giving his loyal consumer base the numerous options they crave?
2) I don't think Tuff was flaming him, I do think he was perfectly justified in mentioning how his attitude was toward the scales. It was more of an aside and afterthought, it wasn't derogatory or inflammatory. I was interested to hear Hinderer's reaction. Now if Geoff would have ran to the forums and started to stir the pot like OP, than that's a different story. His youtube channel is his world.
3) The Xerox thing is way off in being a good analogy. Tuff works with a passion for knives and to help others have one-of-a-kind pieces of functional art, nothing akin to a Xerox machine. I am a big fan of both Hinderer and Tuff, but I would be upset if after dropping $800 on a knife, I wasn't "allowed" to slap a textured piece of G-10 on there to suit my tastes.
4) I would hope Hinderer would change his mind in the attitude of aftermarket parts for his knives. I am no expert in the field of knife economics, so I might be way off base, but it would seem to me that having third parties manufacturing scales would only boost Hinderer's product? Would it not increase sales and interest in the brand? Ipod sales don't go down because people offer customizable skins for them... just saying.
Perhaps Hinderer could license out the ability to create such aftermarket parts and make a tad, along with giving his loyal consumer base the numerous options they crave?
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Clean up your act and be treated with the same respect that Hinderer Knives is.
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Clearly a generational divide on this issue. I watched the video. I will continue to follow my life long philosophy taught to me by my blessed Mother - If you can't say something nice don't say anything and leave it at that.
To even insinuate let alone say that Rick Hinderer would feel threatened in some way by these offerings is rediculous.
I have great respect for a competetive marketplace and even more respect for a Man that took the risk, invested his time,energy and treasure into designing and manufacturing a product that has become an icon within the knife world.
To be protective of the process as well as the finished products that bear the Mans name can only be understood by someone who has done what Rick Hinderer has done.
If someone "feels" the need to invest in an offering from Rick and then not be satisfied with it in its stock form nor the accessory offerings only to then pursue "pimping" - Good luck, God's speed and I for one, don't really need to brought up to speed on the details of the process.
There is an old saying, Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Thank you Rick and Rob for your Great knives - just the way they are.
Oh Wow! Look... A Ferrari with spinners!
To even insinuate let alone say that Rick Hinderer would feel threatened in some way by these offerings is rediculous.
I have great respect for a competetive marketplace and even more respect for a Man that took the risk, invested his time,energy and treasure into designing and manufacturing a product that has become an icon within the knife world.
To be protective of the process as well as the finished products that bear the Mans name can only be understood by someone who has done what Rick Hinderer has done.
If someone "feels" the need to invest in an offering from Rick and then not be satisfied with it in its stock form nor the accessory offerings only to then pursue "pimping" - Good luck, God's speed and I for one, don't really need to brought up to speed on the details of the process.
There is an old saying, Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Thank you Rick and Rob for your Great knives - just the way they are.
Oh Wow! Look... A Ferrari with spinners!
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