Tuffthumbz pimped a Hinderer xm-24 and did some trash talking on youtube

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Chuka said:
Yeah, a Ferrari owner has the right to do that... but since it's a knife, we can't? I don't get it.
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I don't recall anyone said you can't do whatever you want with your knife. Take it apart paint it purple and put it back together backwards.
Just don't then go up to the original maker, show him your new creation like you just reinvented an improved version and wonder why you aren't received with a big wet kiss and a hug.
Then take that reaction and infer that you have somehow "threatened" the designer with your pimp genious.

Does that help clarify the point?
 
rubiconss said:
I don't recall anyone said you can't do whatever you want with your knife. Take it apart paint it purple and put it back together backwards.
Just don't then go up to the original maker, show him your new creation like you just reinvented an improved version and wonder why you aren't received with a big wet kiss and a hug.
Then take that reaction and infer that you have somehow "threatened" the designer with your pimp genious.

Does that help clarify the point?
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If you read the thread TT stated to him "RH is a God in the knife world" and he just wanted to show the man his work. he also so stated that he would stop pimping hinderers in the future, he does not want to offend RH. To me it shows TT felt it offended RH and he does not want to do that in any way.
 
I read the thread and I watched the video painful as it was. What is fairly obvious and certainlt is the reason this is even an issue is; the individual making the video has his own wares to peddle.
This was not a video made by some individual happy and excited about the arrival of his new knife. Clearly he has a following, thats fine. It is a free market.
It was the video maker who felt the need to go into detail about his approach to Rick Hinderer, the response and then drew his own inference that Rick was apparently "threatened" by the product offering. Then posters have gone on to say that perhaps Rick should be welcoming of third party vendors making products and accessories that his compant already offers and that he should be appreciative of the effort because it will somehow increase interest in his product line as if that is an issue. Then as if the comedic factor wasn't already at the max - there is a reference to an Apple product, just the most controlling inventor/designer/manufacturer ever known for protecting the sanctity of his original designs.
Gentleman, this juice isn't worth the squeeze. This is an indefensible issue just based on the facts.
- ANYONE can do whatever they want with their Knife (even if it's a Hinderer)
- Anyone can modify any product as long as a Copyright isn't violated or a Patent infringed upon.
- IF I was Rick and someone had approached me with aftermarket products manufactured to fit MY product - I wouldn't have said much other than "You WILL be hearing from my Attorney".
That really is about all there is to say regarding this matter IMO. I have built and sold businesses, I own businesses that I built and that bear my name. Honestly, unless someone has been down that road - they really don't know about this to have an informed opinion.
 
rubiconss said:
Does that help clarify the point?
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Yes it does, thank you. We are of opposing viewpoints. I guess I perosnally would be flattered to see people worshiping/improving my work. I also think I'd love to see additional offerings on an item that I had originally made to be customized. Just differences in thought, I suppose.

I don't judge Hinderer for his reaction, that's his knife, his deal. I am just getting my opinion out there as a consumer... the things I like about Hinderer and knives in general. There is a reason I own two of his knives...
 
Sir, differing points of view is fine, I respect that. I was merely pointing out that ones perspective may be different when they are the one who actually designed and manufactured the item.

IF I showed up at one of my business ventures to be greeted by some young man proudly announcing that he has "arrived" to improve upon or in some way contribute to my efforts for the obvious betterment of the effort. I can assure you, He would not be welcomed nor would his efforts. I don't expect this perspective to be obvious to everyone. It does not negate its reality however.

Chuka said:
Yes it does, thank you. We are of opposing viewpoints. I guess I perosnally would be flattered to see people worshiping/improving my work. I also think I'd love to see additional offerings on an item that I had originally made to be customized. Just differences in thought, I suppose.

I don't judge Hinderer for his reaction, that's his knife, his deal. I am just getting my opinion out there as a consumer... the things I like about Hinderer and knives in general. There is a reason I own two of his knives...
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rubiconss said:
Sir, differing points of view is fine, I respect that. I was merely pointing out that ones perspective may be different when they are the one who actually designed and manufactured the item.

IF I showed up at one of my business ventures to be greeted by some young man proudly announcing that he has "arrived" to improve upon or in some way contribute to my efforts for the obvious betterment of the effort. I can assure you, He would not be welcomed nor would his efforts. I don't expect this perspective to be obvious to everyone. It does not negate its reality however.
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I understand your point of view, everyone would react a bit differently to the scenario described.
 
- IF I was Rick and someone had approached me with aftermarket products manufactured to fit MY product - I wouldn't have said much other than "You WILL be hearing from my Attorney".
LOL so if I show my remington rifle to remington with a hogue stock on it I should hear from their attorney? There are aftermarket parts to fit on pretty much any type of product you can think of. Maybe I missed something but I don't see what tuff did wrong AND he apologized anyway. Why are people making a big deal out of this?
 
Emerson15 said:
- IF I was Rick and someone had approached me with aftermarket products manufactured to fit MY product - I wouldn't have said much other than "You WILL be hearing from my Attorney".
LOL so if I show my remington rifle to remington with a hogue stock on it I should hear from their attorney? There are aftermarket parts to fit on pretty much any type of product you can think of. Maybe I missed something but I don't see what tuff did wrong AND he apologized anyway. Why are people making a big deal out of this?
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Yes. Based on your analogy you definately missed at least my point but where we can agree is "Why is anybody making a big deal out of this" - No need. Both parties to the actual exchange were both big boys and it didn't need to be referenced outside the initial exchange, let alone, put on a YoyTube video. But ancient irrelevent history at this point.
There a far more compelling topics we can waste our time talking about, How bout' them Bears?
 
If you purchase a knife or car or computer or house i believe you have the right to modify it as you please, Tuff isnt selling Hinderer scales hes selling his time and skill.
If he was only making scales for a certain knife i could possibly understand a problem because he could take sales away from licensed manufacturers, but i feel like if someone wants a plain G10 scale that Hinderer will sell you they will go to him, but what about if you want some crazy grooved original scale? Thats where Tuff comes in and does a great job.
Tuff never disrespected Rick in my opinion the impression i got was that Tuff was surprised that Rick didnt like what he was doing. I can understand that.
I think the more options you have for a product the more people it will appeal to possibly helping sell those wonderful knives.
 
AntCaps said:
If you purchase a knife or car or computer or house i believe you have the right to modify it as you please, Tuff isnt selling Hinderer scales hes selling his time and skill.
If he was only making scales for a certain knife i could possibly understand a problem because he could take sales away from licensed manufacturers, but i feel like if someone wants a plain G10 scale that Hinderer will sell you they will go to him, but what about if you want some crazy grooved original scale? Thats where Tuff comes in and does a great job.
Tuff never disrespected Rick in my opinion the impression i got was that Tuff was surprised that Rick didnt like what he was doing. I can understand that.
I think the more options you have for a product the more people it will appeal to possibly helping sell those wonderful knives.
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agreed.

why are people obsessed with trying to badmouth thumbz? i don't even participate in the whole "knife pimping" craze but i do fully respect the guy and his talents.

i'm shocked at how sensitive this community can be.
 
so i've been thinking on this and everyone has a point!!!! But it should be up too the people who spend money on these to be able to pimp them to their own use.....regrinds i'm not a big fan of but some people are...It's not who's the best in the knife industry because every knife maker has made a knife to improve another's design. now on the scale can't see what the beef is because it doesn't affect the over all use of the knife....tuff makes a great product as well as mr. hinderer maybe they need to collaborate together on a scale!!!!!'''''cause the way i see it it's the people who can buy direct and selling them to the secondary market that are using them day to day.. I pay top dollar on my hinderer's and am personally pleased they are available best knife i've personally ever owned and for those that care i dont pimp mine i'm pleased the way it comes but it should be an option to pimp at least scale wise!!!!any body giving frag scales a hard time????? JUST SAYING even though i happily own 4
 
Frag scales are made by Hinderer.

This is just one of those issues that you just can't find an analogy for. Change the scenario even slightly and it would lean another direction. Can anybody make any parts they desire? Of course and I hope that will always continue. Does the original manufacturer have to like it? Hell no! I'm not Mr. H, nor was I there, so I won't speculate on how he felt but I think I would be a little less than enthusiastic.

Okay, I couldn't resist my attempt at a lame analogy from my own experiences... Let's say I that I put a lot of time and effort into creating a spreadsheet to be disseminated. Then I received it back via email with the colors changed and a note asking if I thought it looked better. Was I mad at the person? Not really beacuse they were young and really were just trying to help and show their enthusiasm. Was I happy? Hell no!
 
rubiconss said:
- IF I was Rick and someone had approached me with aftermarket products manufactured to fit MY product - I wouldn't have said much other than "You WILL be hearing from my Attorney".
That really is about all there is to say regarding this matter IMO. I have built and sold businesses, I own businesses that I built and that bear my name. Honestly, unless someone has been down that road - they really don't know about this to have an informed opinion.
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There are simply no grounds whatsoever for litigation; even if Geoff was prefabricating scales and selling them en masse. There may be an issue with a copyrighted 'Hinderer' or 'XM' name if it can be demonstrated that they are being usurped as a marketing tool, but the scales themselves violate no copyright law. Geoff makes one off custom scales on knives that are shipped directly to him; and they are AWESOME. Anyways, if I were to pay an exuberant price for a custom Hinderer and the maker told me that he didn't like me doing as I like with his knives, I would have a bone to pick with him. I bought the knife, it is mine, not yours, and I will do with it what I please; and that includes modifying it to make it BETTER for my particular applications and tastes. Just because a design is good or aesthetically pleasing to the maker, no matter how good he is, does not mean that the design will excel in all performance niches, or appeal aesthetically to every individual. Proper blade profile, primary grind, edge geometry, scale ergonomics and aesthetics are unique to the individual user and the application of the knife. Though a Ferrari may be a finely tuned precision tool with great aesthetics, there are aftermarket tires, body kits, engine components etc. that will make it look and perform better than the original. It was unfortunate that Hinderer couldn't see how Geoff's work complemented Rick's awesome designs, and by no means detracted from his work. If it was merely a financial issue, and Rick didn't like the idea of competition for aftermarket scales; well.......welcome to the free market boss, Capitalism's a bitch.
 
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