Turn Right Or Left!

Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Messages
478
TURN LEFT OR RIGHT! The American Dream -- freedom -- stands precisely between the total state-control models of the far left and right. To the extent we sway either left or right, we weaken the very thing that makes us good. This is lost in reporting that broad brushes things as being simply left or right.

Our central ideals of rule by the people, limited government, delegated powers, ownership of property and the fruits of your labors, these make America great, a shining beacon still drawing immigrants. They are also liberties detested and lost as you stray left or right from the American center.

Now, "leftist" for example, does accurately portray many political entities you cover, like the welfare state, socialized medicine, government schools and such. "Right" however, is often incorrectly attached to things in the middle, for an interesting reason.

An example illustrates. Owning guns and lots of ammunition is typically characterized as right wing. But if you think about it, in this country, owning guns, ammo and knowing how to use them is precisely the baseline, the American way, practiced nationwide since that right appeared in our charter in 1791. This right to arms is something you do not and cannot have under left-wing socialism or right-wing fascism. It helps define those autocracies -- a powerless subservient populace.

To the extent any socialist- or fascist-leaning forces are active, they eat away at American principles balanced between them, in this example, the (some would say wild) freedom to keep and bear arms.

If the American left had its way, no one would have guns but the police, a classically socialist position. But here’s the rub: why doesn't the so-called right-wing also seek to disarm the populace, as fascism dictates? How can the strongest support for gun ownership actually come from the "radical right"?

Because those people aren't the right wing. Defending gun rights is centrist, not fascist. It gives people power, not government. The right to arms, like firm religious belief, a strong moral sense, reducing taxation, love of country -- things often portrayed as "right" are the classic American model, right in the middle. The media are getting it wrong.

Here's why.

From the left, where most of America's anti-gun-rights sentiment resides, the American Dream is indeed to their right, but that doesn't make it "the" right.

The moderate, God-fearing, gun-toting, compassionate citizens with a set of moral values are central, the What-America-Is-All-About component, not right wing.

You see, it's not about the left against the right. The left is fighting the middle. America faces a battle between its core values, and socialism. And now we've come full circle -- because the arch enemy of socialism is us.

Walking the dynamic road between the left and the right, our American way is jeopardized every time a news outlet sugar coats a socialist-leaning (or less common but equally dangerous fascist-leaning) piece of politics by calling it merely left or right.

And characterizing fundamental elements of the American Dream as right wing, because they are to the right of the left, is simply inaccurate, not a proper policy for good journalism or reasoned debate, and should be abandoned.

NOW, by doing the right thing, we can all be right!

Alan Korwin
 
With the greatest respect mr bear. Think you may have mistaken us
for a forum that gives a shit. Afraid you are mistaken....

Could be wrong on this...
 
Ibear doesn't want us to lose our second amendment rights and does not want the issue mischaracterized as either Right or Left.



munk
 
But every now and then Policy is good.
Here's our Big Boss's position in The Political Forum....

07-21-2005, 12:23 PM
Spark
user_offline.gif
vbmenu_register("postmenu_3188381", true);
H.P.I.C
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 6,169


Welcome to the Arena. Read before posting.
Welcome to the BladeForums.com polictical discussion area.

Politics is a touchy subject for everyone, so with that in mind, remember the rules of this site. We don't want bashing for bashing's sake, flame wars or any other tripe.

So with that in mind, try to follow these simple rules:

No Racism - Nobody wants to know what you think of the dirty Chinese, white-devils, or other minorities.

Defend your position - If you post an article or make a statement, back it up with some commentary on what brought you to that. This isn't the Drudge Report.

Use your ignore list - It's there for a reason. If you flame you'll get banned.

More rules will be posted as needed.
__________________
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
Owner, BladeForums.com
Only Sharp Knives are Interesting

It seems to me that over the last few days some folks are being more critical of others, getting their feeling's hurt, lashing out because of misunderstandings, and all kinds of interactions that go along with the Internet because of our different background's and also our individual skill in reading and/or writing the written word.
As Spark says, "Politics is a touchy subject for everyone, so with that in mind, remember the rules of this site. We don't want bashing for bashing's sake, flame wars or any other tripe."
And "Defend your position - If you post an article or make a statement, back it up with some commentary on what brought you to that. This isn't the Drudge Report."

I think ibear needs to read the above and follow our boss' suggestions as ibear often jumps into the forum leaving a controversial post with no explanation.
An explanation would go a long way in helping us folks to understand just what in the hell ibear is trying to say.:rolleyes: :grumpy:

Now with that said....
Gang, try to remember that this is the Cantina set up by Uncle Bill long ago and that all of us come here from varying backgrounds and understandings of all things doing with political, religious, spiritual, and other beliefs. Also remember that there is not a single one of us here perfect.:rolleyes: :(
So please stop and think before you post and try to remember that we are all friends here, even those who don't participate often.
 
Ibear does need to follow through, and he usually does. I hope in this instance he will. He often brings thought provoking subjects to our attention.

We just had a spammer here so I think nerves are a little frayed. I would second Yvsas very good advice to be kind to one another. I think Brent's reaction was a little over the top.



munk
 
BrentH said:
With the greatest respect mr bear. Think you may have mistaken us
for a forum that gives a shit. Afraid you are mistaken....

Could be wrong on this...
Of course, this is about your rights also.... But, certainly, we all live here in the great ol' USA, most of the time anyway. And of course, this issue is so important to all of our welfare, wouldn't you agree?

HAPPY TRAILS!

iBear
 
ibear said:
Of course, this is about your rights also.... But, certainly, we all live here in the great ol' USA, most of the time anyway. And of course, this issue is so important to all of our welfare, wouldn't you agree?

HAPPY TRAILS!

iBear

ibear, did you read my post at all? :rolleyes: :grumpy:
An acknowledgement would be nice.:grumpy:
And please, when you come into the forum and drop a bombshell such as the above please defend your position and explain what you mean.
If you had read my post you should have already done so.:(
 
I will write this as neutraly as I can without loosing any meaning, please let me know if anyone is offended and I will gladly remove. Nothing I write here is personal (exept the enviroment stuff).

Now I wouldn't slot myself into any political catagory (generalized catagories are always trouble). My views swing across the whole feild dependinng on the issue, for example here in canada my views on gun laws are considered quite right wing (I dont think there should be to many gun laws), however my enviromentall views could be considred as radical left, I like the kyoto acord, I donate money to green peace, and I sympathise with the Sea Shepard Society (hopefully I will still be able to travel to the US after posting this, several nations and lobyist groups are trying to get the Sea Shepard Society labled as a terrorist orginization). I dislike easy lables such as leftist and rightist.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I find ibears definitions of left and right a little vague. Specificaly the left (he didnt really say much about the right) Universal health care, enviromentaly freindly policies, high minimum wage, full employment policies, and government protection from to much forign ownership do not make a totalitariam communist state or one without freedom. I agree that if you get to far in either direction things start getting bad but I find ibears post misleading in that it gives the impresion that left wing sympathisers are just waiting to take away our freedoms. I personaly am more concerned about right wing trends these days, the patriot act scared me, Bushs wire taps scare me, and especialy the spin/propoganda job performed by the white house leading up to the war in Iraq. In 2003 just before the invasion of Iraq over half of the americans polled beleived that Saddam Hussain sent the terrorists that attacked the world trade centers.

Now I dont watch Fox news, and I take CNN with a grain of salt, but I would have expected someone in the media to have actualy analized the goals of al-Qaeda, and I mean beyond they "they hate our freedoms" white house party line. I'm sure most intelegent people came to the conclusion that killing americans was not the ultimate objective. Islamic extremists want power in the middle east, to create a power bloc to rival the west ( I never said they were realistsic), in order to do this they need to take power in many moderate or secular countries in the region. They do not have the popular support to do this (yet), so their thinking goes if they can attack the US (the only super power) in such a terrible brutal violent way America will retaliate by bombing (or even invading) some muslim countries alienating the general populace, turning them away from a more moderate path and into the hands of the radicals. So far the white house is playing right into bin ladins hands. Afganistan needed to be invaded, the Afgan governement was giving direct aid and shelted to terrorists, and frankly if the president didn't bomb someone after 9/11 he would be impeached and replaced by someone who would. But no mainstream media outlet seems to be pointing out that by invading Iraq we are playing into the hands of Al-Qaeda.

These are just my humble opinions, feel free to disagree or disregard, but as this thread seems to be ment for political debate thats what I'm going to use it for with no offence ment.

Cheers
Gordon
 
I appreciate the idea that right and left are terms that are loosely defined.

In general, as a libertarian, I resist both the Right and the Left's attempts to whittle away my freedom.


munk
 
I need to vent.

I just found out some information about my ex-brother-in-law and my sister.

He is from an incredibly wealthy family. Like something from a movie. My sister divorced him almost 20 years ago, taking their son with her.

He had never had anyone leave him before. He just could not believe that anyone could do that. He fought her for 13 years to regain custody. She never refused him access to the son, whom he treated fairly well.

However before the divorce he became a terrifying combination of alcoholic and born-again-Christian. Very physically abusive when drinking and repentant, to a point, when sober.

My sister endured one of these attacks. She had black eyes and other injuries she would not discuss. I wanted to kill him. She is 5'2" he is 6'4". The second time it happened, she left.

When the father-in-law died he left a good part of his estate to my sister's son. However he made ex-brother-in-law the executor with broad powers over the distribution. None of this money has ever reached my sister's son.

He told my sister's son that he, the son, would never see a penny until his mother, my sister, was dead.

Also his estate was set up the same way. We are talking millions here, folks. I really feel for my nephew. He is a brilliant young man, but he has some allergies that cause him a lot of grief. Some of this money would be a great help to the young man.

But his father is adamant. No money until my sister, his mother is dead.

The two good things here is that Daddy (ex-brother-in-law) lived in New Orleans. He survived, oh well. And he is 70 now.

Though I feel myself to be a Christian, I am having a very hard time working up forgiveness. I lean more toward Bob Dylan when he sang:

"And I hope that you die, and your death will come soon,
I will follow your casket on a pale afternoon,
and I'll watch while your lowered down to your death bed,
and I’LL STAND OVER YOU GRAVE ‘TILL I’M SURE THAT YOU’RE DEAD!”

And when they finally bury this guy, I hope that they will drive a wooden stake through his heart. I don't want him coming back!

God forgive me for my feelings, but I can't forgive my ex-bother-in-law...
 
I feel for you Bill........That was your EX-brother in-law.

I have a current brother in-law I'd like to strangle. Won't go further.

Sorry OT but had to vent as well. :(
 
Holy Moly.

I'm finding it hard to locate the place of 'do unto others' and to walk the Budhist path, and enabling. I don't know where kindness stops and enabling begins. It's tough. I'm not 6'4" but if the guy hit my sister I'd have gone for him and gotten myself beaten, but he would pay a price.


munk
 
I admire your restraint, all of my little sisters boyfreinds understood that if she said the word I'd castrate them. Fotunatly her fiance is a good guy and a freind of mine because he is alot bigger then me (for some reason he was still scared when he told me dont know why... *genlty carreses knife*. It's to bad that often the child is the one who suffers because of one parents malice towards the other.
 
munk said:
Holy Moly.

I'm finding it hard to locate the place of 'do unto others' and to walk the Budhist path, and enabling. I don't know where kindness stops and enabling begins. It's tough. I'm not 6'4" but if the guy hit my sister I'd have gone for him and gotten myself beaten, but he would pay a price.


munk

My sis still loves him and /or refuses to comprehend things that he'd done. :( :mad:
 
munk said:
I appreciate the idea that right and left are terms that are loosely defined.

In general, as a libertarian, I resist both the Right and the Left's attempts to whittle away my freedom.


munk
As a Libertarian you will do very well, I'M sure!

iBear
 
Back
Top