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- Thread starter ibear
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Your point is actually fairly accurate, I think.Yvsa said:ibear, did you read my post at all?:grumpy:
An acknowledgement would be nice.:grumpy:
And please, when you come into the forum and drop a bombshell such as the above please defend your position and explain what you mean.
If you had read my post you should have already done so.
Your views are always appreciated.
iBear
Sometimes restraint is a good thing. It is usually difficult to help others because they may not apprecioate your efforts or your actions, even though you may do exactly what they need. Sometimes people need to learn their own lessons in life.... and won't appreciate your good intentions. I also have two sisters and two daughters (ALL Married) and YES, I can tell you truthfully that sometimes some people don't really want their problem solved for them. It is always hard to judge this issue.Bill Marsh said:
Sometimes my own daughters need to vent... let off steam... ignore their own comments and go right on living their lives. Sometimes my daughter shows up crying, she sleeps over and talks with my wife and myself and goes right back home a few days later.
Same bullstufffff different day...... HOWEVER, I agree with you on one major point. Hitting my daughter is past the line... YES, right over the line. So far that has not happened. Knock on wood, it never will!
iBear
This issue is neither right or left because it is not a political issue..... it is a peoples rights issue..... it is a Constitutional issue, the right of the people to use deadly force. Just because you don't choose to speak right now is no good reason to give up your right to free speech! Free speech is how we keep the Government in check.munk said:
If you don't choose to carry deadly force today, it is no reason to give up the right to do so. If you do give up the right to speak freely, who will criticize the Government then? If only the Government had the right to use deadly force, then we would have lost one of the major checks and balances, keeping this nation on an even keel.
These Amendments, our "Bill of Rights" are valid because they work and have worked very well for many years. I see no valid reason to change a very successful action, a very successful system, only because somebody decided they would rather not speak today. Our Democracy has endured a good long time. Police states don't last long!
iBear
- Joined
- May 28, 2003
- Messages
- 1,815
My head is starting to hurt.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2002
- Messages
- 77
I think I agree, fundamentally, with what you said, ibear, what was lacking in your message was perhaps a some clarity. I am pro-gun, and I think our right to own a firearm, is the most important right we have, as it is the one that protects all of the other rights.
I respect that some people do not want to own guns, even that some people don't want me to own guns. I don't really understand them, but I respect their opinion. I do however not have any respect for those who manipulate the public, using fear and tragedy for their own political maneuvering, as has been the tactic of many anti-gun groups for years.
Just for an example, a senator gave a moving speech some years back on the deadly weapons out on the streets. She spoke of statistics showing all the poor children killed each day by violence, all the while waving a certain brand of particularly scary looking shotgun around the senate floor.
What annoys me is that the statistics that senator used included 16-20 year old gang bangers killed in shootouts with each other and the police over drugs in Detroit and L.A., and that that particular type of shotgun, while an appropriately scary prop, had never been used once in a crime in the United States at that point in time. That kind of fear-mongering has no place in America, at least, again, in my opinion.
kuraa pokha, manmaa naraakha
Jeremiah.
I respect that some people do not want to own guns, even that some people don't want me to own guns. I don't really understand them, but I respect their opinion. I do however not have any respect for those who manipulate the public, using fear and tragedy for their own political maneuvering, as has been the tactic of many anti-gun groups for years.
Just for an example, a senator gave a moving speech some years back on the deadly weapons out on the streets. She spoke of statistics showing all the poor children killed each day by violence, all the while waving a certain brand of particularly scary looking shotgun around the senate floor.
What annoys me is that the statistics that senator used included 16-20 year old gang bangers killed in shootouts with each other and the police over drugs in Detroit and L.A., and that that particular type of shotgun, while an appropriately scary prop, had never been used once in a crime in the United States at that point in time. That kind of fear-mongering has no place in America, at least, again, in my opinion.
kuraa pokha, manmaa naraakha
Jeremiah.
Some issues such as human rights and individual liberty come from a higher source. In the sense that politics are not supposed to affect individual rights one way or the other, the right to defend yourself is said to be above human censorship... because it comes from our Creator as an inalienable right.Grob said:
Certainly anyone can have any viewpoint they choose and in that context any issue can be political. However, inalienable rights are slightly different because we agree that these rights are above human control.
That is my point,
iBear
QUOTE: "I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms. I'd walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me."-- Senator Diane Feinsteinbullfrog99 said:
”If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright gun ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it.'' – Senator Dianne Feinstein, CBS-TV's 60Minutes.
What alternative solution, has gun control ever offerred, to replace a gun as a method for individual citizens to provide for their own safety and security.
Gun Control is the answer to what? It sure does NOT make Dianne Feinstein any safer.... WHY else would she carry a gun?
iBear
The other aspect of inalienable rights is that they are so fundamental to our existence, originating from a higher source (our creator), that we agree that these rights are untouchable by human control. These rights are inalienable.munk said:
This right to arms is something you do not and cannot have under left-wing socialism or right-wing fascism. It helps define those autocracies -- a powerless subservient populace.
To the extent any socialist- or fascist-leaning forces are active, they eat away at American principles balanced between them, in this example, the (some would say wild) freedom to keep and bear arms.
If the American left had its way, no one would have guns but the police, a classically socialist position. But heres the rub: why doesn't the so-called right-wing also seek to disarm the populace, as fascism dictates? How can the strongest support for gun ownership actually come from the "radical right"?
Because those people aren't the right wing. Defending gun rights is centrist, not fascist. It gives people power, not government. The right to arms, like firm religious belief, a strong moral sense, reducing taxation, love of country -- things often portrayed as "right" are the classic American model, right in the middle.
My inalienable rights should stay right where they are... in the middle! Both Republicans and Democrats can support these inalienable rights and agree that these rights should remain free from human control! - iBear
"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey Democrat
Keep your family close and be prepared. Why else would you carry your khuk with you in the woods. Preparedness is a good thing.munk said:
Chop a dead tree - burn some wood.
FREEDOM IS VERY SPECIAL TO SOME OF US, I THINK!
Some can appreciate that more so than others.
Smile ol' buddy!
iBear
Working very hard, while we have no rain, to get caught up on work.munk said:
I hate working in the rain, slogging around, slipping and sliding away in the rain soaked dirt.... that is no longer dirt.... it's mud!
I love the rain, but hate working in the mud!!!!!!
iBear
My inalienable rights should stay right where they are... in the middle! Both Republicans and Democrats can (and should) support these inalienable rights and agree that these rights should remain free from human control! - iBearmunk said:
The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey Democrat
When I have taken the time to read what Hubert, our Democratic Vice President way back in time, had to say on inalienable rights...... GaaaaWleeee, I better go back a few years and vote for him. Nothing he stood up for sounds anything like the Democratic Party I hear speaking now. Of course, other issues, like the "Great Society" was not so great..... but, back then I think President Johnson thought Socialism was a jolly gooood idea, with merit!
Politics is a down right dirty business.... maybe that is why I prefer not to slog around in the mud very long! Have you ever put on your galoshes and waded out through the lake, (you call it a driveway) and went out hiking in the rain? Now that is nature... real nature for sure!
When your kids go with you and all come down with sniffles and get colds, your wife will kill you twice, but, it just might be worth the energy to try it once... ONLY ONCE!
HeeeeeHaw!
iBear
You do make good sense! Smart!
iBear
I think I agree, fundamentally, with what you said, ibear, what was lacking in your message was perhaps a some clarity. I am pro-gun, and I think our right to own a firearm, is the most important right we have, as it is the one that protects all of the other rights. - bullfrog99
iBear
iBear
I think I agree, fundamentally, with what you said, ibear, what was lacking in your message was perhaps a some clarity. I am pro-gun, and I think our right to own a firearm, is the most important right we have, as it is the one that protects all of the other rights. - bullfrog99
iBear
Freedom...........
Most Americans have no clue how the rest of the world doesnt have it.
As a boy, we were stationed in Wiesbaden (West) Germany.
In 68 we took the Flag train from Frankfurt to Berlin, through the Eastern Zone. Vopo (East German Border Guards) armed with AK's cleared us through,
searching the train, more outside the train, weapons at the ready.
On to Berlin, the wall, and more armed guards.
Papers checked at Check Point Charlie, into the "Ost" we go on a bus tour.
Russian soldiers on the Kurfurstendam, Vopo everywhere, cameras, dogs, the wall. Held at the border going back out for 3 hrs while everyone else had gotten thier passports back.
Dad (in uniform) almost arrested near the Reichstag the next day, for
trying to take a picture of the Reichstag rubble.
Fast forward to June of 69......
Family come over, we go on a 2 week camping tour, first stop, outside Munchen. A foggy morning, damp and cool, we go to Dachau anyway.
2 Hours at Dachau as an 11 year old, the ovens still smelled of death,
suffering and deprivation haunt that place, a lessson in FREEDOM I'll
NEVER forget. 37 years later, I can still feel that place when I remember.
Any American whom serves, be they cook, MEDIC, grunt, pilot, it doesnt matter, has my gratitude and support.
I am deeply into the shooting sports, and choose to lawfully bear arms.
I would never by choice live anywhere that didnt permit them.
An armed citizen is the ultimate political check and balance.
DaddyDett
Most Americans have no clue how the rest of the world doesnt have it.
As a boy, we were stationed in Wiesbaden (West) Germany.
In 68 we took the Flag train from Frankfurt to Berlin, through the Eastern Zone. Vopo (East German Border Guards) armed with AK's cleared us through,
searching the train, more outside the train, weapons at the ready.
On to Berlin, the wall, and more armed guards.
Papers checked at Check Point Charlie, into the "Ost" we go on a bus tour.
Russian soldiers on the Kurfurstendam, Vopo everywhere, cameras, dogs, the wall. Held at the border going back out for 3 hrs while everyone else had gotten thier passports back.
Dad (in uniform) almost arrested near the Reichstag the next day, for
trying to take a picture of the Reichstag rubble.
Fast forward to June of 69......
Family come over, we go on a 2 week camping tour, first stop, outside Munchen. A foggy morning, damp and cool, we go to Dachau anyway.
2 Hours at Dachau as an 11 year old, the ovens still smelled of death,
suffering and deprivation haunt that place, a lessson in FREEDOM I'll
NEVER forget. 37 years later, I can still feel that place when I remember.
Any American whom serves, be they cook, MEDIC, grunt, pilot, it doesnt matter, has my gratitude and support.
I am deeply into the shooting sports, and choose to lawfully bear arms.
I would never by choice live anywhere that didnt permit them.
An armed citizen is the ultimate political check and balance.
DaddyDett