Tw90 vs KMG for starting a shop

T

T Moore

Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
3
Looking to start a shop and get into knife making seriously Not fulltime or anything like that just wanting to make a few and not have to upgrade later because I bought cheap. I saw a short video about thw Tw90 and have seen alot more about the KMG but hoped someone that had used both would give a comparison of the pros and cons of the two. Looking to buy in january so any help would be appreciated. Thanks for any advice

Medicine Hat
 
I don't know if you have made many (or any) blades yet, and what your budget ultimately is. The advice I would give most people just setting up a shop is to buy quality if you can afford it, but not spend a ton right off the bat. You may end up not wanting to make knives as much as you thought at first, or your budget may be constrained later on, leading to some painful choices.
From what I have seen, both the TW90 and the KMG are high quality machines that could easily be relied upon as the only grinder in a professional shop. I like that the TW90 can be easily flipped horizontal- I don't use a horizontal grinder in my shop but can see how they make some things easier. The KMG as well as Rob Frink's customer service is very tried and true and is IMO a great value. I'm not saying the TW90 is a poor value or that Travis Wuertz doesn't stand behind them, they are just a lot newer on the market.
I'd buy either if I had the money. I built my own KMG-style variable speed, it keeps me happy but one day I'll have a KMG and a TW90. But if I had the money for either and had to pick right now, I'd get a KMG and trick it out with small wheels, a 14" wheel, variable speed, and a MAP arm.
Don't overlook the Bader BIII, the Burr-king 960-272, or some of the others. Here's a link to a comparative guide at my website if you care to look.

http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

I'll shut up now and let a forum member who actually owns a TW90 tell you about it.
 
Love my KMG. That TW90 is one serious looking machine though.
 
I have a KMG and love it. It is built like a tank and will last for generations doing what it does and doing it well. However, I think I may just like a TW-90 even better ;). I got to fiddle with one at the ABS show in San Antonio, and it's a quality machine. Well built, and some neat and useful features.

You really can't go wrong with either. I will say that I considered selling my KMG to purchase a TW90.... I just couldn't justify the extra cost for myself right now.

--nathan
 
I'm a big fan of Rob, and the KMG.
I own one myself, and even have some wheels en-route from Rob right now.

That being said, if I was buying my 1st grinder, or knew I could only have 1, I would buy the grinder from Travis.
It's bad-ass.

The TW-90 does most everything you can think of, and does it well.

Many folks don't have a horizontal grinder.
Until they use one.
Then it's tops on the list.

I probably spend as much or more time per knife on the horizontal as the vertical.
The wheels I have coming from Rob are to build another horizontal.

If I planned on multiple grinders in the future, I would get the KMG.
Less money, and when you start setting up multiple grinders, all the tools interchange.
Plus, it's a damned fine grinder.

I'm actually on the verge of selling my Hardcore, and building another grinder that uses my KMG attachments.
 
I personally love the KMG, and while I haven't had the TW-90 actually in my shop, I have used it. There are a few things about the TW-90 that I can foresee being problems, and that are "deal breakers" for me.
First and foremost is the small (I think 1 1/4" square) Aluminum tooling arms. On the one I used, the tooling are was really chewed up where the "hold down" had dug into it, and the arm was slightly warped/bent. That leads me to believe that it might not be the right material, nor "beefy" enough to withstand long term, hard use.
The next item is purely personal preference, but I don't like the flat platen setup on the TW-90.....for me to own one I would have to modify it extensively, or change over the tooling arm(s) to use one of my platens, which I don't think is doable since the grinder frame won't accept anything larger for a tooling arm, and to use my platen requires a 1 1/2" tooling arm.

Now that I've said that, please don't take it to mean that I'm dogging the TW-90....I'm not. It's a super smooth running machine, and it does have a lot of features, but weighing the features it offers, against how I grind/use a grinder, it's just not cost effective FOR ME. I think that if it had been designed with 1 1/2" tooling arms, it might very well rival the KMG in my eyes.
I've said this a number of times, but it's worth repeating... FOR THE MONEY, I don't think there is a better 2x72" grinder on the market than the KMG.
 
I have both of them. A KMG1 and the TW90. For convex/flat grinding I'll keep using the KMG, as I already have it set up the way I want. I bought the TW90 after meeting Travis at the Visalia hammer in. It's a great machine. I bought it because I was already looking for a horizontal grinder and something I could grind integral's on. The versatility of the machine won me over, plus the new attachments coming out soon. That being said I thought about what Ed is describing about the aluminum getting chewed up over time. I can see over time this becoming an issue. But something that can be easily remedied in the future with a new tool arm or replacing it once with steel, so to me it's not an issue.

If I was starting over I would buy or build one of the no weld grinders first as the attachments needed and parts could be easily had and bought from KMG, to make a decent machine. My second grinder would then be a TW90 as it will fill any void left by the first machine. I do see in the future though the TW90 being the go to machine, or Bader and the other grinder companies coming out with there own version.

I'll post pictures soon of the two side by side. I think having a set of grinders set up already will speed up production. As it is now I work so many hours at work that I only get a day or two a month to play in my shop, so that anything I can do to make production faster is well worth the investment. That is also why I choose to buy a lot of equipment instead of building it. I just don't have the time.
 
Last edited:
I agree. I used the KMG and Bader at the ABS Intro class. I bought a Grizzly to start with and recently purchased the TW90. If you can afford it, the TW90 is a great machine. You cannot go wrong with either one, KMG and TW90 are both great machines.
 
Ed, those are my 2 beefs with the Wuertz design too, 1.5" would be better, and driving a screw into aluminum isn't the best for longevity.

Easy enough to install a steel plate in a pocket milled in the tooling arm though for the lock screw to press against.
I think Travis should do that right off the bat...

1.5" just because it's the standard, so to speak.

There's no way a mere human is going to bend 1-1/4" aluminum.
 
That TW-90 is one really slick looking machine. I've watched the videos and such, and was really impressed. When I saw the ability to rotate 90 degrees into a horizontal grinder, I thought DAMN I should have waited just a bit longer before getting my KMG.

That being said, I love my KMG!! I love how beefy it is and how solid everything feels when working with it. Horizontal grinding? When you think about it I do have a horizontal grinder.....it's just been rotated a bit:D With my MAP arm and small wheel attachment set up, all I do is sit on a stool just to the right of my grinder, turn to my left, and hold my workpiece up against the tool rest on the MAP. PRESTO! Instant horizontal grinder.

The TW-90 seems like a cool machine. Would I like to have one? Sure. Do I need one? Not really. If I didn't already have a grinder, would I get the TW over a KMG? That's a tough question. For the same price as a TW, I could get a nice KMG setup AND one of Beaumont's horizontal grinders. It would take up more space, but dedicated machines mean less fumbling around with adjustments and belt changing.

Just some things to think about. Good luck with your decision, I really don't think you'll be disappointed with either:thumbup:
 
Hold on one second! You've invested the cash to purchase both a KMG AND a TW-90?.........and you only get one or two days a month to play in the shop!?!?!:eek: You are not getting your money's worth, my friend!!:D

jimmyseymour said:
I have both of them. A KMG1 and the TW90. For convex/flat grinding I'll keep using the KMG, as I already have it set up the way I want. I bought the TW90 after meeting Travis at the Visalia hammer in. It's a great machine. I bought it because I was already looking for a horizontal grinder and something I could grind integral's on. The versatility of the machine won me over, plus the new attachments coming out soon. That being said I thought about what Ed is describing about the aluminum getting chewed up over time. I can see over time this becoming an issue. But something that can be easily remedied in the future with a new tool arm or replacing it once with steel, so to me it's not an issue.

If I was starting over I would buy or build one of the no weld grinders first as the attachments needed and parts could be easily had and bought from KMG, to make a decent machine. My second grinder would then be a TW90 as it will fill any void left by the first machine. I do see in the future though the TW90 being the go to machine, or Bader and the other grinder companies coming out with there own version.

I'll post pictures soon of the two side by side. I think having a set of grinders set up already will speed up production. As it is now I work so many hours at work that I only get a day or two a month to play in my shop, so that anything I can do to make production faster is well worth the investment. That is also why I choose to buy a lot of equipment instead of building it. I just don't have the time.
Click to expand...
 
Ed Caffrey said:
First and foremost is the small (I think 1 1/4" square) Aluminum tooling arms. On the one I used, the tooling are was really chewed up where the "hold down" had dug into it, and the arm was slightly warped/bent. That leads me to believe that it might not be the right material, nor "beefy" enough to withstand long term, hard use.
The next item is purely personal preference, but I don't like the flat platen setup on the TW-90.....for me to own one I would have to modify it extensively, or change over the tooling arm(s) to use one of my platens, which I don't think is doable since the grinder frame won't accept anything larger for a tooling arm, and to use my platen requires a 1 1/2" tooling arm.
Click to expand...

There is the appearance of bias in your opinion since you sell a platen that fits the 1 1/2" tooling arm and you link to your item that you sell.
 
It would be very easy for most makers to build a tooling arm that would fit the TW90 and hold the Caffrey platen. I don't think he meant it that way...
 
I've ground knives on a few KMG's, and a couple of Bader's now. I absolutely hated working on the Baders. The sides of the flat platten are rounded, rather than square. You could add a ceramic platten liner to square it up, but I worry that it would suffer cracks from not being backed by steel. It could be ground square, or replaced too, but I don't want to have to ajust my machine after spending thousands on it. I also didn't like the tracking on the baders. And I didn't like the sheet metal base either. I sure do like that 1/2" plate of steel at the bottom of my KMG's.

My shop now has two KMG's side by side, and I'd add a third and a fourth without thinking about it. I don't want a fancy machine that I have to stop and convert to doing something else. I want (eventually) a few dedicated machines setup close to one another. I often have both grinders running simultaneously with different arms and jump back and forth between the two. Having to stop sucks.

I've never used the fancy aluminum one (I hate aluminum, and that would be a deal breaker for me), but I can't see taking it over two KMG's for the same $. Admittedly though, I've never seen it working in public, or used one, so my opinions are based solely on how well the KMG does in my shop.

I don't understand how you can get better service than Rob at KMG. He's never once dropped the ball with me, and I've never once called during business hours and not had Rob himself answer the phone.
 
Fiddleback said:
My shop now has two KMG's side by side, and I'd add a third and a fourth without thinking about it. I don't want a fancy machine that I have to stop and convert to doing something else. I want (eventually) a few dedicated machines setup close to one another. I often have both grinders running simultaneously with different arms and jump back and forth between the two. Having to stop sucks.
Click to expand...

Now THAT would be nice!! How about three KMG's side by side with, one with a large wheel, one with a small wheel attachment, one with a flat platen, and one of Beaumont's sweet horizontals right next to 'em!!:eek: Hmmmm, I think I'm gonna need more benchtop:D
 
the tracking of the tw90 is superior to anything else that I have used and I have ground on just about everything. IT comes with all the bells and whistles included for the price and is already tested and tuned when it arrives. the KMG IS a great grinder but I am buying a TW90.
 
I stand by the TW90 as being the superior grinder for the ONE GRINDER shop.

As soon as you start adding grinders, the equation changes.
It becomes more cost effective to run lesser, dedicated grinders.
 
From the perspective of the cost to get into a quality machine I don't think there is a better choice than the KMG. I sure love mine!

STR
 
Brian Fellhoelter Knives said:
I stand by the TW90 as being the superior grinder for the ONE GRINDER shop.

As soon as you start adding grinders, the equation changes.
It becomes more cost effective to run lesser, dedicated grinders.
Click to expand...


Brian's post pretty much sums up how I'm looking at it.

I have three grinders---2 KMG's and a Burr King. If I had the money and space, I'd have about 10 grinders lined up. Hell, I'd like to have one for each grit belt! ;) :D

The more I learn about knife making the more I feel like I'd rather have more grinders that do less rather than less grinders that do more. ;) :)

Of course that gets really expensive really quick!!! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top