Tw90 vs KMG for starting a shop

jonnymac44 said:
Now THAT would be nice!! How about three KMG's side by side with, one with a large wheel, one with a small wheel attachment, one with a flat platen, and one of Beaumont's sweet horizontals right next to 'em!!:eek: Hmmmm, I think I'm gonna need more benchtop:D
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I'd have one with a rotary platen, one with a small wheel, and one with my 10" wheel.

If you were closer to GA I'd bring you to one of the GA guild meetings. Every shop I've been to makes mine look fledgling. There are usually several grinders all lined up in a row.

I like your work, btw. We should do a collaboration project.
 
Fiddleback said:
I'd have one with a rotary platen, one with a small wheel, and one with my 10" wheel.

If you were closer to GA I'd bring you to one of the GA guild meetings. Every shop I've been to makes mine look fledgling. There are usually several grinders all lined up in a row.

I like your work, btw. We should do a collaboration project.
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Rotary platen, yes indeed:thumbup: That's what I meant!!

Thanks for the compliment Andy. I'd love to talk more about that some time.
 
Fiddleback said:
I don't understand how you can get better service than Rob at KMG.
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I don't own a Bader grinder. I own a Square Wheel. I wanted to purchase a larger wheel than the stock 8" that comes with the Wilton, but wasn't certain what the largest diameter I could fit would be. Several companies were contacted (some of them a few times!). One company - ONLY one - took the time to explain to me what I needed to do to determine it. On top of that, they offered to press a bearing into a wheel, send it to me, and if it didn't fit I could return it and they'd credit me or sell me a smaller one. The wheel arrived in two days, and Doug from Bader called me to check on whether or not I received it and how it fit. I own several attachments for my Square Wheel now that were never meant to work on it, but that the folks at Bader helped me with.

I've actually spent more money with KMG, believe it or not. I wanted a variety of attachments which he offers, but again wasn't sure how to tackle determining what or how I should measure to fit them. Rob was unwilling to assist, as he wasn't familiar with my machine. Understandable.
I wanted to convert my grinder to variable speed, and special ordered a motor and vfd from Rob. The master power switch for the vfd broke within a few months (certainly a manufacturing defect, and no fault of mine or Rob's). When I called to ask him for a replacement, he told me to find one locally, as it would be cheaper than getting one from him.

Now, although I can't describe my experiences with Rob as being negative (they weren't), I CAN describe my experiences with Bader as being excelsior.

Have I used both machines? Yes.
Did I see enough differences in operation for me to claim total polarity on their performance? Certainly not.
The plate steel used for the base of the Bader grinder is just that - a base. Mounted to a solid bench or tool stand, I don't believe there's any perceivable difference.
When I order my Bader, it will be removed from it's packaging, plugged in, and ready to roll. The machine comes painted to reduce the chances of corrosion, has a motor that is integral to the design and thus requires no further adjustment or alignment of belts, is capable of using all the tooling attachments I could possibly ask for and more, and is self-contained for control and power with no additional assembly. They stock and sell 3M belts including my beloved 707s.

These are some of the insights I have in selecting my next grinder. Others have been considered, but there's no question that a LOT of convincing will be needed to change my mind.
 
Well here is some pics. This is how it arrived.

The drive accessories came in there own box.

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The grinder showed up the next day so I had to go pick it up at FedEx since they couldn't seem to deliver it after I got off work. It was bolted to a piece of plywood on 2x4 in the box. Good thing. It didn't feel to heavy so I tried to pick it up. Big mistake, as I lifted it off the tailgate the box was just to bulky to hold despite the weight. and dropped on the ground from the height of my tailgate. Ouch. You will notice there is plenty of room in the box and if you are moving one at home go ahead and cut some handholds in the box. There is plenty of room but still be careful about it.

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after cutting away the box to move and get to it.

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I didn't have the right size bolts to bolt it to my workbench so I just set it up.

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I did attach a c-clamp to the base and turned it on to see if would have any problems right out of the box like my other grinder did. It ran like a champ right out of the box even after I dropped it. It's also a good thing that I didn't have the right size bolts as the grinder sits higher than my other grinder and is to tall. No problem as I took delivery of two new workbenches that are shorter yesterday evening and will be setting them up over the weekend.

Here are the drive accessories that came with it.

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You will notice that the idler arms on the flat platen can be adjusted. So if I add ceramic glass to the platen I don't have to mill the stock holding the platen to adjust for the increase in size.

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Here is the platen that can be so universal it probably needs its own thread on all the things you can do with it.

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All in all I have almost as much money in the KMG as I do my TW90. Both are excellent machines. I still don't have a variable drive for my KMG though. So I do think that now on my TW90 will be my go to machine, and leave my KMG dedicated to something not to critical where variable speed is desirable. After I get it set up more and have ground out a few blades I can come back and give you a better idea of which I think is better. I think though it is going to be a close tie, with the TW90 edging ahead due to it's ability to be a horizontal and vertical grinder. Hope this helps.
 
That's the color of the one I saw at the Boise show. It is beautiful.

I was on the fence for a very very long time about getting the KMG. I have tried many KMGs and I did like them but the TW90 blew me away. It is so well tuned , so soundly constructed (I like the plates with the though mortise welds) and shockingly quiet and vibration free. Changing belts, taking up slack and converting it to a horizontal position is all so easy.

I'm getting mine after Christmas. All I need is belts and a couple of small wheels from K & G.

By the way, Travis is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. I'm really glad that he was able to succeed with this fine piece of machinery. You should also see his skill as a Knifemaker. He's got mad talent in him.

Dean
 
deloid said:
By the way, Travis is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. I'm really glad that he was able to succeed with this fine piece of machinery. You should also see his skill as a Knifemaker. He's got mad talent in him.

Dean
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+1 I loved his bowie with the stingray scales. I took vacation to go to the guys hammer in. I can't wait to see what's new over at his place.
 
I have the tw-90 and can tell you that for me it is the best possible machine available. there is so much that you can do with it and like Josh Smith told me this grinder will make you a better knifemaker no matter what your skill level is.
 
I will most likely get a TW90 I like the option of doing horizontal grinding Tried to add up all the attatchments and price of the KMG horizontal grinder to equal the TW90 and the price is kust about the same if not a little higher So I will most likely get a TW90
 
If you have the space/funds, 2 machines are better than 1.

I have 5.

Switching setups sucks.

Less with Travis machine though.

I am working on my 2nd horizontal grinder now.
 
I have two of Travis' grinders. They are exceptional. I had a vari speed 2HP KMG and was very happy with it. I liked it very much and think Rob makes a great grinder that you can't go wrong with.

That being said Travis' grinder is the king of all grinders. I have not found any of the issues listed above to be a problem. I find it to be a stout machine with unmatched versatility. Anyone who has not spent time on one of these machines can not imagine the versatility they are missing out on.

The TW-90 is awesome.
 
I've only seen videos and photos, and agree they look fantastic. Does anyone know the reason though, as to why the non-standard 1.25" tooling arm? Doesn't that mean that none of the plethora of existing 1.5" tooling arms in everyone's shops can be used on the machine? Am I missing / misunderstanding something? Thanks, Phil
 
Phil Dwyer said:
I've only seen videos and photos, and agree they look fantastic. Does anyone know the reason though, as to why the non-standard 1.25" tooling arm? Doesn't that mean that none of the plethora of existing 1.5" tooling arms in everyone's shops can be used on the machine? Am I missing / misunderstanding something? Thanks, Phil
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Yea, that is pretty short sighted.

a design change would suck to implement and PO those who already have the 1.25, but better sooner than later....



Thinking about it though...the spacing from the toolbar to the wheel would probably be different anyway, but why not adopt the defacto standard when it exists..?
 
That's Travis' 1 mistake on this grinder I think.

We talked about it when I met him at Blade.

I think they should have 1.5" arms, and either have a steel plate in the arm for the locking screw, or at least a slot milled in it so the screw can chew up aluminum that doesn't ride in the receiver.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of us with KMG's and a bunch of arms around.
Why not use them?

When I built my own grinder, I designed it to use the KMG arms.

That being said, we could also modify our KMGs to accept these arms instead, easier than the other way around.
 
Mine is a personal choice (buying the TW90) based on my impression of quality, versatility, package and my perception of accuracy and durability.

The 1 1/4' tooling arm issue doesn't worry me at all. Actually, I thought the ever popular Bader came with a 1 1/4 arm as well but maybe I'm wrong.

I do think it's likely that there will be swirl marks or even depressions on the aluminum but I think those will be cosmetic. If they ever become a problem it's an easy fix.
 
BADER 3 = 1 1/4" tool arm. I built another socket on mine for a rest arm it is 1 1/4" also. Jess
 
I've used them all and hands down the tw90 has superior tracking, is the most versatile and is the smoothest running. the 1-1/4" tooling arms are a none issue as Bader has been using them forever. :thumbup:
 
I believe you can use your bader wheels on the TW90 with an adapter. If I recall I believe it was said all you need was a washer for a local hardware store.
 
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