Two camillus knives? What do you think?

Campbellclanman

Campbellclanman

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Hi everyone,
I have two knives that I believe are made by Camillus, ( please, if I am wrong I do want to be corrected ).Ok...here are two knives that are made by the same manufacturer, but stamped by different merchants?...one by Sears, and one by Craftsman.
What puzzles me is the difference in these two knives...is it just a difference of years of in-between manufacture?, or... a different Merchant making changes after receiving the knife from the Manufacturer?
Although these are not high end knives, I find them to be extremely nice knives to use, the make of the knife is obviously a good manufacturer of knives, and although being the medium-to-lower end scale of knife, because of the quality of materials used?, still....I find them a very nice knife to use! The walk and talk tells you a bit more....
The difference may seem small to you, but when the two knives are in front of you, there are quite big differences...
The Sears Knife ( top ) is finished a lot more...how do you say....with more finesse?
The Bolsters are rounded more, there is a beautiful Swedge in the Clip Point blade, there are differences in the nail nicks, and there is a difference in the length of the nail pull on the main clip balde, also, the wood scales in the Sears knife seem to be rounded off more-so than the Craftsman knife, also the pen blade is different in shape, even the kicks of the blades are different!!.....please have a look at the knife comparison of knives and tell me what you think...as in why the big number of obvious changes?
myknives018-10.jpg

myknives017-10.jpg

myknives016-14.jpg

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myknives014-14.jpg
 
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Campbellclanman said:
Hi everyone,
I have two knives that I believe are made by Camillus, ( please, if I am wrong I do want to be corrected ).Ok...here are two knives that are made by the same manufacturer, but stamped by different merchants?...one by Sears, and one by Craftsman.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you look at the tangs, one is stamped "Craftsman" and the other is stamped "Sears Craftsman". "Craftsman" is a copyrighted property name that is owned by Sears and has been for decades. No one in the USA is confused about the origin of Craftsman tools or products. Both knives are Sears store products.

A lot of us older fellows will remember there used to be two brands of wares in Sears that were Sears products. There were tools, household goods, appliances, and all manner of things that could be marked with "Sears". When you bought a "Sears" tool (I still have some!) you didn't necessarily get a "Craftsman" product.

I had a good friend that worked in the tool department back in the 70s. He had worked there for years, and he told me they contracted out all of their Craftsman marked tools. BUT... the tools were made to Sears' specification for their flagship line, Craftsman. They used better specs, better materials, or as in this Case, better finish than their tools marked only as Sears.

I started contracting in the 70s, and Craftsman had a bulletproof warranty, and back then they were great tools. I bought a lot of them. Sears marked tools were pretty good, but not great. The warranties were pretty short, and the products were good for the weekend warrior.

Eventually, to squeeze every bit out of the Craftsman name they could, it expanded to cover everything under the sun. Craftsman warranties now vary from product to product.

Campbellclanman said:
Hi everyone,
....please have a look at the knife comparison of knives and tell me what you think...as in why the big number of obvious changes?
Click to expand...

After close examination, these knives may be the result of what happened to many other Craftsman products, especially their hand tools. To make their price point, Sears dropped the fine fit and finish I had seen for years on their woodworking tools (specifically their tri-squares, wood chisels, hammers, saw squares, etc.) and looked to a more functional look. The tools still worked fine, but they were no longer as pretty, and didn't have the great fit and finish we all loved.

To make that point in this case, looking at the knives, think about the differences in the knives. They look to have different levels of hand finishing, and a huge difference in stamping and marking. That could probably be traced back to the company that gave them the best bid at the time they were trying to fill orders for that knife. And depending on the age of the knife, that same knife pattern may have been made very inexpensively if they also made that pattern for Montgomery Wards (I have an old Powr-Kraft knife myself) if it was made for others as well.

Sadly, for almost all big retailers it all comes down to money on these things. We may love our knives dearly, but to them, they are no different from any other widget moving through the company machine.

Cost to manufacture/cost to distribute and sell/contribution to the bottom line. A knife to them is no different than a blender.

Robert
 
I think they are both Camillus due to long pull, well defined cut swage. 5 digit product #'s tend to be Camillus, 4 digit tend to be Schrade.
However i have been wrong on these before. I know of at least 2 members who check in here regularly who will know for sure.
Codger will know what significance there is, if any, between knives bearing "Sears" and those with only "Craftsman".
roland
 
I also agree that they are Camillus products. In the Camillus area there have been a lot of discussions of Sears/Craftsman knives. I also have heard of the 4 or 5 numbers in the model number linking the source. The five digit number isn't a Zip code.
 
Bruce Voyles knows a huge amount about a great many knives but he might not be into the minutae that differentiate the Schrade and Camillus knives. To further complicate things Albert Baer owned both from about the 1960's ?, on, and they made each other's knives, traded knife parts, etc. For the Sears products, it's strictly academic whether made by Schrade or Camillus because overall the knives are all but the same. Certain runs may have produced a slight 'notch up' knife.
Some patterns like the Lockbacks can be pinned to either Schrade or Camillus because they used different frame shapes.
All of the Sears 5" LB are on a Camillus frame (no flattening on front bolsters). I've looked at hundreds. However a few weeks ago i bought a 5" Sears LB, identical to all the others, except it's on a Schrade frame. (maybe Camillus ran out of frames for a day or so, and Schrade sent a few over)
roland
 
I def. think Camillus. I had purchased a Camillus seconds grabbag years ago from SMKW that had the exact same knives in them.

Glenn
 
I have been down this trail with Craftsman 301 lookalike's and Craftsman blades in Buck bodies.

If some aren't aware there is still an active thread for Camillus knives, even though it lists as closed. Just search Camillus on the general search box and it will show up.

Here is a quote from a Buck discussion on Camillus production:

<Many times there were leftover parts from Sears "Craftsman" knives because the manufacturer would have to anticipate a knife's demand based on previous sales so extra knives were produced. You had to have inventory on hand to meet future orders. This was different from other customers that would place an order for a set amount like 10,000 knives per month. >
Tom Williams aka Camco

Here you go I don't want to be accused of being lazy.....Camillus forum
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/695-Camillus-Collector-s-Forum

300Bucks

Edit: Forgot to add this,,,,,http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Catalogs/Catalogs.htm
 
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They have a Camillus look to me too, Duncan.
 
Just in case anyone is unaware, the Schrade and Camillus sub forums here are the most amazing sites(sorry Buckaroos). Members who live just blocks from the knife factories, members who worked there, some for well over 30 years, plus for Schrade, all the original paperwork: minutes of meetings(often with Albert Baer explaining his idea of some changes or even a new knife), shop floor notes and "S Cards". S Cards list all the specs for every run. It's impossible to be more authoratative. Super friendly too.
roland
 
I live on the Buck, Camillus and Schrade forums. There is a lot to learn and a lot of information. The "S" cards are the proof as to what knives Camillus made and out of what materials they were made. Having people to ask about knives they made is always a great source of information.
 
I have no idea as to whether those are Camillus or Schrade, but I wanted to point out that minor differences between the two (swedges, nail nicks, etc.) can often be attributed to the knives' ages. Here are several Schrade 8OT knives as a demonstration:

8OTcomparison.jpg
 
This is what makes knife collecting so enjoyable .......the little details
 
WHEW!!
Everyone...what can I say!! thank you VERY much for your hard thought that has gone into your help here for me.
I always wish I had a lot more knowledge than what I do ( which is zero )..so I can help people with their questions...all I can do is usually comment on the knife :o
Everyone...you have lead me to other threads to do home work, which I will do eagerly, and also with the knowledge of your past use of Sears and Sears/Craftman. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Is it possible they are two diffrent models. one has a spey blade. (Stockman)the other has a pen blade maybe a (Wittler)?
 
A knife is largely named by it's frame. These are Stockman knives, whether it has a Pen, Spey or Punch in addition to the Clip and Sheepsfoot blades.
roland
 
I would be surprised if it were a pen blade in the end, but Duncan could you display the two spey blades? Could lend itself to more comparisons. The swedge on the top knife's clip blade indicates Camillus for sure, but both of the handle frames have the same Schrade serpentine curve. If someone suggested a collaboration of parts by a company that had a common owner, I would tend to believe that could be the case.
 
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