Ulster // Schrade Walden

textoothpk

textoothpk

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Probably a question for our LT here. I notice that some Ulster and Schrade Walden Knives bear the same model number (for example: The Ulster 208 fishing knife and the Schrade Walden of the same number) or there were indentical models from each company (for example, my Schrade Walden 204S.. and I have seen at least plastic handled versions of this same knife by Ulster). The connection between the two firms are obvious, both under Imperial Knife co.

My question is (out of curiousity; I don't intend to make a living out of selling either brand) which brand (same model) has more dollar value to collectors?

LT, I do wanna thank you for raising my own consciousness about a brand I never thought much about. I'd say that the history of Schrade-Imperial-Ulster is just about as fascinating as Case.
 
Ulster Knife Company, from the 1870's through about 1940, produced very high quality pocketknives, similar to Schrade during the Schrade Cut Co era. For knives of that period, I would rate the Ulster brand as actually being more collectible than Schrade (maybe by a small margin). I don't know why, maybe it's because the brand is completely gone.

When Ulster sold out to Albert Baer, they retooled and produced a much more "mass market" type pocket knife, similar to Camillus and Kutmaster. When Ulster then was absorbed into Imperial Schrade, they of course ceased to be a separate company but the name was a "brand". Similar I guess to Ford/Mercury or GM/Chevy/Buick etc.

Anyway, from post WWII through the mid 1970's, Imperial, Ulster, and Schrade knives were made by one company, Imperial Schrade. Imperial was the "low end" line, Ulster was the "mid-grade" line, and Schrade was the "high end" line.

The Ulsters were a step down in quality from Schrade, thinner blade stock, thinner bolsters (but still solid nickel silver), and a less broad range of patterns made. In my 1963 catalog of Schrade and Ulster, the Ulsters were about half the price of Schrades for equivalent patterns.

These newer Ulsters I would rate low in collectibility, the only ones that get much collector interest are the ones in Rogers bone, pearl, or fancy celluloid handles. Even those would be less valuable than the equivalent Schrade.
 
The funny part of this is that all these knives were made on the same machines. They also were all part of a company owned by the same person. Is it any wonder that you run across the same or similar numbers and styles. In fact that is kind of what makes these knives fun. It is nice to think that everything is regimented and in a nice order but the fact is you can find combinations no one ever knew existed. There has never really been a good codification and listing of Schrade knives and any records are usually post WW II prior to that you have there catalogue which only shows the regular styles and models. Which is far from inclusive of everything they made some styles were produced in such small quantitys they never made the catalogue, prototypes, salemans samples, overruns incorporating what ever was left from the last run, mistakes, just to name a few examples

Let me give you an example lets say an order for 1000 dozen stockmen for sears (Craftsman)is filled on Monday on tuesday perhapes work is started on 1000 dozen Old timers. You are liable to find any combination of handles tang markings or who knows what, workers make mistakes, if they had 50 sets of craftsman handles left they might go on Old timer tang marked blades. It is all the same company all the same workers all the same. In fact the machinery that made Ellenvile knife and then Dwight Devine Ulster and then Ulster was all the same. Schrade Machinery was brought to Ellenville in 58 and then incorporated into the Ulster machinery. Just like George Schrade incorporated the machinery from Challenge when they went broke and he started the George Schrade company ( presto ). In 1923 when Walden knife went down the employees produced knives under various tangs Orange D&S on the same machines Walden had used. Winchester made there knives on old Napanock machines after they bought them out in fact in that case they took most of the workers with the machines that is why you may have noticed the close resemblence of these early knives to each other. Machines for the most part were not discarded just updated. The same owners, the same machinery, the same styles, thinking about it this way It would seem a lot of the numbers would overlap.

The old Ulster plant ( that as a kid I used to fish in back of the workers would watch me ) originally got its power from the Beerkill ( orignal spelling was old German someting like bierkill named for the color of the water) The water would run down the sluice and power everything. In the summer they had no power, Then in later years in the summer when the water went down they would use Central Hudson ( electric company ). Finally the Electric company gave them an ultimatum they could have it one way or the other. So they went to regular electricity. Now the interesting part of this story is that the sluice now closed up was 11 feet deep and quite long 40 50 feet just guessing. All the knife companies from that era had trouble disposing of there rejects and seconds. In fact as kids we would search for these caches. New York Knife used to throw them out the windows into the Wallkill. Then they had a landfill just down from the company. But back to the Ulster story. They decided that since the sluice was closed off it would be a great spot to dump these knives and so they did until it was full and then it was covered with cement it took years to fill and was open all that time so there they sit filler can you imagine the value if they had just put a floor over it instead. Then again maybe they did the building is still there something to think about

As far as values I agree the previous writers assessment. LT
 
Thank you, both of you guys, for your informative, interesting comments. Yes, LT, ths sorta thing does make knife collecting fun, just as the helpful people one encounters in the hobby does.

Sorry my reply here is somewhat tardy. Had a BAD computer problem for the last week.

Thanks again,

Phil
 
Hi there,

I was surfing the web and stumbled upon this forum. I have a knife here that I wanted to find out more about. It says Ulster Knife Co. USA. ans on the end of the knife on the little metal loop in says U.S.

This knife has a bone handle and 2 blades (see picture)

I was wondering if anyone knew ANYTHING about this knife, and if so, could you tell me a little about it? Thank you for your help!
 
Hi there,

I was surfing the web and stumbled upon this forum. I have a knife here that I wanted to find out more about. It says Ulster Knife Co. USA. ans on the end of the knife on the little metal loop in says U.S.

This knife has a bone handle and 2 blades (see picture)

I was wondering if anyone knew ANYTHING about this knife, and if so, could you tell me a little about it? Thank you for your help!

knife002.jpg
 
looks almost like a WWII mountain issue. Issued to special forces and mountain fighting forces. However it is not. The bail denotes it as that vintage, or possibly early 50 tys, it appears smoothbone, versus the jigged of the mountain knife. while the knife blades are the same apparently yours has a wire ( stripping notch ) on the small blade. Yours has the phillips and punch but the can opener is a trimming blade and you have a glass cutter ( these are quite a rare attachment. Your knife is like a cousin to the Mountain knife and a TL-29 ( which bladed different just seems to me like it is part of the idea somehow. ). I guess because of notch and its obviously being more of a workmans tool. TL 29s were mostly wood but they were also smooth. The Ulster marking denotes 40-50 tys and so does the style. I cannot tell the exact marking from the pics but it looks like it is not the very old version.

This may be a common knife however I am unfamiliar with this exact version. I also lean toward an initial govt contract being somewhere in the history however it is speculation. Hopefully someone out there will know it as soon as they see it. The TL-29 brings 20 to 50 dollars, the Mountain knife 300 and up. I really do not know on this. Sorry I cannot help more I will look around some more to see if it pops up. Neat Knife. LT
 
OK, cool! That is interesting, however, I am not 100% sure the notch you talked of is an actual notch. It could POSSIBLY be chipped, but it like I said, I am not sure. The only reason I would think it may not be, is because it is so clean and smooth, not like a break. Any way...
Oh yeah, The handle or bone plates on each side of the knife are in fact jigged. I guess you can't see it from the original picture. Here is another picture so you can see the handle in better detail!
knife.jpg
 
Forgive me for being such a neophyte but, is/was there any connection between Schrade and Kutmaster?
I just found an old Kutmaster (along with an Al Mar Quicksilver, a Gerber Pipe Knife & others) in an old box of knives I had mis-placed.
I had thought the Kutmaster was a Camillus as I got it in the Marine Corps and it is just like my USMC issue mechanic's knife, which is a Camillus.
Was there a connection at one time between Kutmaster and Schrade?

Thanks,
Dale
 
orvet said:
Forgive me for being such a neophyte but, is/was there any connection between Schrade and Kutmaster?
I just found an old Kutmaster (along with an Al Mar Quicksilver, a Gerber Pipe Knife & others) in an old box of knives I had mis-placed.
I had thought the Kutmaster was a Camillus as I got it in the Marine Corps and it is just like my USMC issue mechanic's knife, which is a Camillus.
Was there a connection at one time between Kutmaster and Schrade?

Thanks,
Dale
Click to expand...


No, no connection between the two firms, but knife patterns often look similar between companies, especially military spec knives. Both companies would match the sam specs.
 
Just got my first Ulster. Anyone tell me anything by a photo?
AF1QipN9BrWZplrJ7Fw0RmS4ZXoApWdyKPP1_orEgKWT
https://photos.google.com/u/2/album/AF1QipNM63upMjXsKpyk-9S3maZlr1qx4IIS-ucrfUay/photo/AF1QipN9BrWZplrJ7Fw0RmS4ZXoApWdyKPP1_orEgKWT
[/IMG]

First attempt at posting a pic, please excuse me if I botched it...
knifeaholic said:
Ulster Knife Company, from the 1870's through about 1940, produced very high quality pocketknives, similar to Schrade during the Schrade Cut Co era. For knives of that period, I would rate the Ulster brand as actually being more collectible than Schrade (maybe by a small margin). I don't know why, maybe it's because the brand is completely gone.

When Ulster sold out to Albert Baer, they retooled and produced a much more "mass market" type pocket knife, similar to Camillus and Kutmaster. When Ulster then was absorbed into Imperial Schrade, they of course ceased to be a separate company but the name was a "brand". Similar I guess to Ford/Mercury or GM/Chevy/Buick etc.

Anyway, from post WWII through the mid 1970's, Imperial, Ulster, and Schrade knives were made by one company, Imperial Schrade. Imperial was the "low end" line, Ulster was the "mid-grade" line, and Schrade was the "high end" line.

The Ulsters were a step down in quality from Schrade, thinner blade stock, thinner bolsters (but still solid nickel silver), and a less broad range of patterns made. In my 1963 catalog of Schrade and Ulster, the Ulsters were about half the price of Schrades for equivalent patterns.

These newer Ulsters I would rate low in collectibility, the only ones that get much collector interest are the ones in Rogers bone, pearl, or fancy celluloid handles. Even those would be less valuable than the equivalent Schrade.
Click to expand...
 
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