"Ultimate Defense Knives" company?

[vanadium]

The other day I stumbled upon a company called Ultimate Defense Knives, showing knives all supposedly designed by one Albert Qiu. They would seem to be just another out-of-left-field brand of Chinese manufacture, except that they're selling a knife called the "New Epoch" which is identical to Reate's knife of the same name.

Their other knives don't match any Reate offering, but all share a similar design theme, so it's looking like one of Reate's designers is spinning off his own brand, and probably using Reate as OEM. The designs are very clean and attractive, but seem to be in that stupid "double the retail price because it's M390" bracket.

Their "Terminator" knife also touts some new lock design: "Super Framelock design by Albert Qiu, is…characterized by the elastic part of the deformation after the force from the titanium block to bear to reach the handle."

Has anyone else heard of this brand or had experience with any of their products, or know who Albert Qiu is?

 

[In Desolation]

No, but China is notorious for their lax attitude towards copyrights and IPs so a knife company pulling something like this is hardly surprising.

 

[SpySmasher]

Any time I hear "new lock design" my ears perk up.

Looking at the few pictures available, however, it seems like some kind of subframe lock.

 

[Lapedog]

Any time I hear "new lock design" my ears perk up.

Looking at the few pictures available, however, it seems like some kind of subframe lock.

Most of these knives look to not be very well designed for defense at all. They have one knife with a wave on it which is pretty much a must if a folder is going to be ultimate at defending you. That same knife is the only one on their website under the “super lock” (the strongest lock in the world )section of their website. A website that doesn’t even list all the knives they have available on blade hq. (One on blade hq is a 230$ knife with huge fat steel handles. Ultimate defense likely involves dropping it behind you while being chased and hopinf your persuer stubs their toe.)

It looks to me like the only difference in this lock is it is a sort of reverse sub framelock where a tab comes off the frame which a lockbar is bolted on to. I don’t really see how this would do anything but make a lock weaker.

These are the only images of the lock I could find.


Some of their designs look like Reate designs, though I’m not super familiar with Reate and can’t tell if they are exact clones or what the relationship with Reate is.

Here is the super chunky 420 steel handled one featuring the “Liu lock” watch the video on blade hq to understand how truly this knife needs a diet.

 

[ericdraven]

thats a fugly knife

 

[SpySmasher]

Here is the super chunky 420 steel handled one featuring the “Liu lock” watch the video on blade hq to understand how truly this knife needs a diet.

No pocket clip! Wish it was a cheapo so that I could buy it just to take apart.

 

[b00n]

Seems like a former Reate employee who went out on their own? Somebody should DM Reate on IG and ask about it. It seems the most likely explanation to me, I like the Pioneer and the Terminator, a bit pricey for an "out the gate" type company, if they were in the ~250 Range I might try one out if they would be available over here.

 

[Comeuppance]

Their catalog seems to be entirely comprised of chunky and uninspired knives with price tags that are a bit ambitious given their complete lack of name recognition. The only even mildly interesting offering I see is the "ray god" which is a 5.5oz clip-less pocket brick with a surprisingly small blade and an astonishing price given the handle is primarily stainless steel.

If they're still around in a year, I'll be surprised.

 

[vanadium]

No, but China is notorious for their lax attitude towards copyrights and IPs so a knife company pulling something like this is hardly surprising.

I pay a bit of attention to the underbelly of the Chinese knife industry, and I've yet to see these companies steal each other's original designs. They're mostly stealing major Western designs (Shirogorov, Microtech, Spyderco, etc.) and coming up with their own (mostly distasteful to my Western eye) designs.

 

[vanadium]

Somebody should DM Reate on IG and ask about it.

Good idea, and done. I asked both the primary account and the USA rep.

 

[vanadium]

It looks to me like the only difference in this lock is it is a sort of reverse sub framelock where a tab comes off the frame which a lockbar is bolted on to. I don’t really see how this would do anything but make a lock weaker.

On a regular framelock, the relief cut turns a part of the frame into a spring. That spring provides lockup/detent tension, but it's also capable of withstanding substantial lengthwise compression before failing. Subframelock designs backstop that mechanism after just a small amount of compression, by causing the floating sub-frame to jam lengthwise against the main frame, with a potentially very large contact area and friction. I don't see any reason why the design on this knife wouldn't accomplish the same thing. But it's really hard to critique it without taking it apart or seeing an diagram.

 

[abcdef]

"Ultimate" is always a good clue.

 

[Mo2]

Wonder if zt will go after them for the subframe lock
Also will Emerson go after them for the wave on the one pictured above?

It does indeed appear to be reate designed or manufactured but who knows for sure.

I wouldn't buy into the dumb name of being self defense. If they are reate products they are probably made to a high standard and prices are probably fine. Small batches won't be cheap. Personally I don't like the designs.

 

[Pogonasong]

The reate epoch has the logo of UD on the lockside ..i looked into this awhile back and all i could gather from ultimate defense's ig is they had reate make the epoch and in the agreement they sold some epochs under both names? Very vague comments and no confirmation reate is oem for other models sold under Ultimate Defense...what a terrible name.

 

[b00n]

Ultimate Defense...what a terrible name.

I had the same thought, the knives look good, not overly special but pretty good, but that name...jeez. At least they kept the logo fairly simple.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Looks like junque to me.

 

[vanadium]

Also will Emerson go after them for the wave on the one pictured above?

Emerson's utility patent is expired, and his trade mark is unlikely to be effective again something like this. He had his 20 years to exploit the invention and now it's legally everyone else's turn, whatever one thinks of the ethics.

 

[SteelJunkee]

Terminator... Ultimate... Tactiloll

I had the same thought, the knives look good, not overly special but pretty good, but that name...jeez. At least they kept the logo fairly simple.

Look Like Warner Bros logo

How much does that cost to "Terminate" in your pocket ?

I searched All over Google patent and did not find that lock.

 

[Lapedog]

Wonder if zt will go after them for the subframe lock
Also will Emerson go after them for the wave on the one pictured above?

It does indeed appear to be reate designed or manufactured but who knows for sure.

I wouldn't buy into the dumb name of being self defense. If they are reate products they are probably made to a high standard and prices are probably fine. Small batches won't be cheap. Personally I don't like the designs.

Considering all Microtech had to do to circumvent the subframelock patent was attatch it to the handle in a different way; I doubt Zt will be able to go after these guys where the attatchment is the lock onto a tab sticking off the frame.

On a regular framelock, the relief cut turns a part of the frame into a spring. That spring provides lockup/detent tension, but it's also capable of withstanding substantial lengthwise compression before failing. Subframelock designs backstop that mechanism after just a small amount of compression, by causing the floating sub-frame to jam lengthwise against the main frame, with a potentially very large contact area and friction. I don't see any reason why the design on this knife wouldn't accomplish the same thing. But it's really hard to critique it without taking it apart or seeing an diagram.

Yeah but a subframe lock usually tries to stick a steel or titanium lockbar onto a material that wouldn’t make a good lockbar itself. (Though we will have to see how the cf lockbar on the Fox Suru actually does) This lock system from UD knives seems to require a tab coming off of the frame for the lockbar to screw onto. In that case the frame likely has to be Ti or Steel or whatever since it is actually this tab that will be he spring.

In that case I am wondering if there is any real advantage to making the lockbar a 2 part system or if it would have been better to just leave it as a solid framelock. Or is there any strength advantage at all?

 

[sharp_edge]

Wonder if zt will go after them for the subframe lock
Also will Emerson go after them for the wave on the one pictured above?

It does indeed appear to be reate designed or manufactured but who knows for sure.

I wouldn't buy into the dumb name of being self defense. If they are reate products they are probably made to a high standard and prices are probably fine. Small batches won't be cheap. Personally I don't like the designs.

would be great but I seriously doubt how they can effectively go after this no name in another country.