Umnumzaan Detail Photo Request

[BobP63]

Considering what I have said above, the question you are asking is just a total non issue, IMO. If that is the only thing stopping you from buying an umnum then just do yourself a favor and take the plunge, you won't be disappointed!

I'll give my search for another Left Hand Large Regular Sebenza a few more days, if nothing comes through on that front I'll likely place an order with CRK for a new lefty Umnumzaan. It seems the Umnum is the natural progression from the Regular, I'll just have to march along with progress.

 

[So-Lo]

I'll give my search for another Left Hand Large Regular Sebenza a few more days, if nothing comes through on that front I'll likely place an order with CRK for a new lefty Umnumzaan. It seems the Umnum is the natural progression from the Regular, I'll just have to march along with progress.

Just my 2 cents...

I don't think one is better than the other, I feel they are different knives aimed at different user groups. IMHO the Umnum is nice, all though I did trade my Umnum off because I carried the Sebbies more... Much more.

Again, IMHO the tip is better in the Sebbie (Reg. Or 21/classic) because it's thicker, also feel the pocket clip is placed much better on the Sebbie (again either one.) There was a little bit of a hotspot on the Umnum due to the cilp being so low on the handle.

Anyways for what ever it's worth, I don't feel the Umnum is "better" than a Sebenza.

Just different :thumbup:

 

[bigmark408]

I've warmed up to the possibility of purchasing an Umnumzaan, but there's one thing that just keeps nagging me about the execution of it's design that being the installation of the ceramic ball itself.

I've never liked the process of staking to secure an installation, I view it as the method of last resort. I know it works, but it's likely the most crude method of securing an installation available. As a thought exercise I've tried to think of a better method to secure the ball such that the same surface area is exposed, but the alternatives I've come up with simply aren't practical. OK, CRK's method is crude and your comming up with better methods than a man that is not only a tool and die maker but that has been making fine knives for over 20 years.

When it comes to staking something correctly there's a bit of an art to doing it cleanly and consistently. I've searched for images showing the actual staking of the Umnumzaan's ceramic ball, but there just aren't many clear shots of the staking itself. From what I've seen so far the staking appears to be done free hand with some being done better than others. Maybe I've been looking at early photos hopefully the process has evolved to use some sort of jig to ensure consistency of spacing and depth.
Once again, saying the process is not clean and consistent.

Unfortunately if I buy an Umnumzaan it will be without the benefit of actually holding one in my hand to look at the quality of the staking. It would be helpful if some of you Umnumzaan owner's could post some clear photos of the staking, it would be nice to see several knives and compare the stakings. Thanks.

Once again doubting the quality of the staking.

I'm not mad or on edge about anything...i just don't see the point.

 

[bigmark408]

Bob, seriously....If you have a sincere concern about something on a CRK product wouldnt it be wise to contact Chris and speak to him directly instead of trying to re engineer his products on the forum.

He is very easy to contact on the phone.

I'm sure after you speak with him ,you will agree he didn't just drill a hole and stick a ball in it.

 

[bigmark408]

COme on dudes, isn't an answer like that basically doing the same as what you're accusing him of?

Please let dudes ask questions without directly being flamed.

If it's someone's integrity being attacked, it's not yours anyway. CRK speak for themselves but sometimes you just want to know a little more detail:thumbup:

don't let one of the knife brothers down when he just wants some info

OK dudes, i would never let another knife dudes down, if you can't see the integrity insult in the original post then you should re read...i have highlighted it.

If the dudes at CRK started to dignify every post here, they would have no time to make knives or give us the quality customer service we have become accustomed to.

Surfs up dudes :thumbup:

 

[JNewell]

I guess I'd add this - that the knife has been out in the world for almost two years now and if nothing else is true about fora like this, if there were a problem, even a really rare problem, it would have surfaced, I think. Certainly some of the bizarre and fantasy-like "tests" (stabbing a fridge) would seem likely to have broken the staking, if anything would have? I don't think I'd worry a lot about the ceramic ball coming unstaked - but ymmv.

 

[BobP63]

OK dudes, i would never let another knife dudes down, if you can't see the integrity insult in the original post then you should re read...i have highlighted it.

If the dudes at CRK started to dignify every post here, they would have no time to make knives or give us the quality customer service we have become accustomed to.

Surfs up dudes :thumbup:

bigmark408,
As you've seen fit to interpret what my post may or may not have implied, I'll make one attempt to clarify it for you and anyone else who might see it the way you have. I'm not going to play a tit-for-tat with you on this, if you choose to make further comments on what YOU believe I meant to say the floor is yours I'll not respond further. I'll attempt to clarify the meaning of my post simply by quoting myself and providing supplemental information on what I was attempting to communicate:

1) "I've never liked the process of staking to secure an installation, I view it as the method of last resort."
My comment was on the PROCESS of staking, a process that certainly pre-dates CRK. How does my not liking a manufacturing method imply anything about anyones integrity?

2) "As a thought exercise I've tried to think of a better method to secure the ball such that the same surface area is exposed, but the alternatives I've come up with simply aren't practical."
This comment simply conceded even though I don't like the process of staking, I can't think of anything better. Therefore I understand why Chris choose to go that way, not sure how agreeing with Chris reflects poorly on his integrity.

3) "When it comes to staking something correctly there's a bit of an art to doing it cleanly and consistently. I've searched for images showing the actual staking of the Umnumzaan's ceramic ball, but there just aren't many clear shots of the staking itself. From what I've seen so far the staking appears to be done free hand with some being done better than others. Maybe I've been looking at early photos hopefully the process has evolved to use some sort of jig to ensure consistency of spacing and depth."
This comment merely implies the process of staking can be rather unforgiving, do it wrong and there's no undoing it. That applies to anyone performing the process not just CRK. The mention of some being done better than others pertains to the image I posted with only two stakes used verses three stakes posted by others, please forgive me for thinking three stakes are better than two. I'll grant it would have helped had I posted the two stake image first and referred to it. The portion of the statement saying hopefully the process has evolved to ensure consistency of spacing and depth also refers to standardizing on the number and position of stakes. Products do evolve during their lifecycle's I just hoped it had settled on a standard. Again how does this imply anything about integrity?

4) "Not sure about you, but the reason I purchase Chris Reeve products are their consistantly tight tolerances and careful attention to small details. The materials used in CRK knives can be found in many other brands, it's how they build them that sets CRK apart"
This comment was from my reply to So-Lo, I don't believe it needs further explanation but just in case I'll state it was a compliment to CRK on there workmanship.

I yield the floor to you bigmark408, if you still believe I was trying to make disparaging remarks about CRK then there's little more I can say.
Thank you for your time, and to anyone else believing I was attempting to defame CRK I'm sorry that's not what I intended.

As for how mister Reeve himself might interpret the meaning of my post, I can only speculate the revenue he receives from my purchases serves to provide clarity.

 

[bhyde]

Some perspective I guess, If I wanted to get that ball out of the lockbar, It would be easiest to drill a hole from the opposite side and push it through (theoretically of course) than to try to pick it out or wait for it to fall out on it's own. Given the tolerance that Chris likes to hold on his parts, I have no doubt that the hole in the lockbar is only .0005 or so bigger than the ball itself before being staked into place.
BTW- I have been placed in the precarious position of trying to remove objects like these before...Must be the machinist in me, but it sucks and I would rather take a swift kick to me jewels before having to remove that ball.

 

[Tony_A]

Thanks Tony_A,
That's the clearest shot I've seen to date, the staking looks to be very well applied. Any chance you can get a shot like that of the front of the lock bar? For those Umnumzaan owners not able to get a shot like Tony's, would you say his Unnum is representational?

Has anyone seen an Unnum with only two staking points like photo I posted, or other configurations?

Thanks again Tony_A from a follow lefty, BTW what's the DOB on your Unnum?

Front of the lock bar? Not sure, what you mean, but if you're referring to photographing a directly "head-on" shot of the staking, unfortunately I can't do that.

I still don't own an Umnumzaan take-down tool and would rather not risk messing it up by using something not designed for the task.

Born on date was March 24, 2009.

 

[RLR]

At the end of the day, it's a knife, not a carburetor or a jet engine.
A ball is pinched in the slab of Ti. Plain and simple. No reports of failure. Nice pictures. A reputable company.

Still on the fence? Then don't get one. These "what ifs" and "is it good enoughs" are just about driving me nuts.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but of late CRK has come under scrutiny for no reason other than the company prides itself on quality and service. Some just can't accept that; some must undermine it. Me, I just buy 'em and use 'em.

Rant off.

 

[stabman]

To me, the original question was genuine and reasonable.
It's sad that some people would rather insult the questioner rather than give an actual answer. That's a very juvenile tactic, and not worthy of what I assume are otherwise mature adults.
As for an answer, the peened spots on my Umnumzaan are evenly spaced and clean. The ball does not seem likely to fall out by any means.
I have issues with the clip placement(hot-spot under prolonged use), but the ceramic ball is firmly in place.:thumbup:

 

[BobP63]

Front of the lock bar? Not sure, what you mean, but if you're referring to photographing a directly "head-on" shot of the staking, unfortunately I can't do that.

I still don't own an Umnumzaan take-down tool and would rather not risk messing it up by using something not designed for the task.

Born on date was March 24, 2009.

Yes I was referring to the portion that faces the blade tang.
I fully understand not wanting to attempt the shot without a take down tool, I wouldn't do that either. Thanks again for the original photo.

 

[BobP63]

These "what ifs" and "is it good enoughs" are just about driving me nuts.

I don't recall any what ifs in my post, but maybe your just using generalities.

I'm sorry if I've somehow contributed to making your forum experience less than enjoyable. I can understand how that can happen as it's recently happened to me as well.

 

[RLR]

Not you or original question. There's just so much negativity of late that I maybe read too much into it. R n D and craftsmanship are top notch at CRK. I have taken the umnumzaan apart and I was impressed. Ball ain't moving.

 

[BobP63]

Not you or original question. There's just so much negativity of late that I maybe read too much into it. R n D and craftsmanship are top notch at CRK. I have taken the umnumzaan apart and I was impressed. Ball ain't moving.

I'm certainly not trying to contribute to any negativity, and thanks for clarifying.

 

[zyhano]

Hey guys,

I guess the pressure is off the kettle. Everybody's cooling down I do hope you will have a better feeling about the forum despite of your recent experiences (I got that )
I felt you asked a good question, and was not in any way being disrespectful.

But then again, I'm Dutch and I might not read the 'hidden meaning'

 

[bigmark408]

Bobp63, OK you refuse to answer why you did not contact Chris reeve personally and discuss your issues with him instead of "implying" that he did not stake the ceramic ball properly....your implications are not even justified since there has NOT been one case noted where the ceramic ball failed in anyway ....theres always engineer types that want to post there theories instead of actually doing it themselves.

Call Chris and discuss your issues and then come back and post.

I'm from the skool of actions ... if you can do it better then do it.

BTW, i would have pm'd you my comments but you do not have the pm option.

 

[JNewell]

Bobp63, OK you refuse to answer why you did not contact Chris reeve personally and discuss your issues with him instead of "implying" that he did not stake the ceramic ball properly....your implications are not even justified since there has NOT been one case noted where the ceramic ball failed in anyway ....theres always engineer types that want to post there theories instead of actually doing it themselves.

Call Chris and discuss your issues and then come back and post.(underscore added)

I'm from the skool of actions ... if you can do it better then do it.

BTW, i would have pm'd you my comments but you do not have the pm option.

Mark, I once called CRK with a question and wound up with Mr. Reeve himself on the phone. I almost fell over, honestly. And then I felt guilty for taking up his time. FWIW (maybe not much, but...) I didn't take the original post as implying that there was anything wrong with how the ball was staked, but reasonable people can read the same thing different ways.

Dunno...

 

[BobP63]

Bobp63, OK you refuse to answer why you did not contact Chris reeve personally and discuss your issues with him instead of "implying" that he did not stake the ceramic ball properly....your implications are not even justified since there has NOT been one case noted where the ceramic ball failed in anyway ....theres always engineer types that want to post there theories instead of actually doing it themselves.

Call Chris and discuss your issues and then come back and post.

I'm from the skool of actions ... if you can do it better then do it.

BTW, i would have pm'd you my comments but you do not have the pm option.

Mark,
For lack of a better phrase "I'm Simply Stunned".

Shortly after I made the post providing explanation to the items you took issue with I received an email from Blade Forums stating the following:
**********
Dear BobP63,

bigmark408 has requested that you become friends. You can approve or deny this request by visiting:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/profile.php?do=buddylist

All the best,
BladeForums.com

**********
I stupidly took that to mean we were putting this behind us.

I accepted your friend request and sent you a follow on message with the subject line "No foul no harm" and proceeded to tell you I've accepted your friend request and continued by saying I can understand how it's possible you misinterpreted the intention of my post, and I hoped you realized I was sincere when I said that was not my intention. I ended by saying I look forward to our future conversations.

Then I come back to see yet another hostile post by you.

What's your problem?
What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?
Why do you insist on believing I'm speaking ill of Chris Reeve.
You want me to call Chris Reeve about accusations YOU THINK I'm implying?

Mark, I honestly believe if you treat others on this forum they way you've treated me throughout this post, you'll be causing Chris Reeve much more economic harm than anything you think I've done.

 

[stjames]

SHUT IT DOWN!

Enough, enough, enough!

The next poster in this thread is automatically just stirring the s**t and being a douch.

Take it to email, PM, facebook or American Telephone and Telegraph.