Umnumzaan fails spine whack? (not my vid)

I wouldn't stab a fridge, unless it tried to lock me in, even then I would use some tactical boot strikes to the handle thusly applying enough force to create an opening without spilling my Newcastle.

As for the Reeves knives, top notch they are, the Pacific is an inspired design, I wouldn't carry a tactical fridge stabber but if I did, I am sure there would be none finer.
 
Good analysis. Less technically, I spent a lot of time looking at those videos back when they were first posted.

If the knife were going to fail in something like hard but reasonable use, I think cutting the sidewall out of the tire would have done it. Look at all the odd, "wrong," lateral and backwards pressures on the blade and lock. The fact that the "tester" still had all 10 fingers after that test pretty much put my mind completely at rest on the Umnumzaan design.

A.P.F. said:
Assuming the act of stabbing the fridge was a straight line force along the longitudinal axis of the knife, we should expect that the stop pin, the pivot and the lock bar will equally absorb the impact force. However, if you examine the video, the individual in question prises the blade from the fridge by placing downward force on the handle. Due to the fact that the steel of the fridge has effectively wedged the blade, the pivot now acts to shift the force towards the spine of the blade and directly on the lockbar rather than the stop pin. This extreme pressure on the lock bar was repeated as many times as you see knife punctures. No lock mechanism on a folding knife is designed for that degree of stress. At that point, the damage was done. We have no knowledge as to how the knife performed under a 'spine whack' in that vid as none were performed. For all we know, the lock failed when he pulled the knife out of the fridge while off camera. As well, for all we know, he stabbed the knife into the fridge repeatedly off camera or otherwise abused the knife before the vid of the 'spine whack' failure.

I feel that after such abuse as was illustrated, it would be inappropriate to condemn any folder or lock mechanism. The actions simply exceeded the design criteria.
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I'll just quote what one of our members said (and Esav also):
rustle
Until then - bringing hype to unfinished case i.e. more posts in this topic are doing more harm than good to CRK and it would be proper to hold back from further comments until things clear. Thank you.
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If you have a tiny bit of respect both for manufacturer & tester you can follow this advice :)

One more thing:
nate3993 said:
that guys a real a**. he posts that video and doesnt talk or mention in any way, shape or form that that poor knife has been through hell and back. that's extremely misleading and dishonest period.
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Link under owner's avatar is there for some reason ;)
http://www.knives.pl/www/artykuly/testy/crk_umnumzaan_fundusz_testerow.html
 
The Chef said:
I wouldn't stab a fridge, unless it tried to lock me in, even then I would use some tactical boot strikes to the handle thusly applying enough force to create an opening without spilling my Newcastle.

As for the Reeves knives, top notch they are, the Pacific is an inspired design, I wouldn't carry a tactical fridge stabber but if I did, I am sure there would be none finer.
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You guys in the States have Newcastle Ale? You were talking about Ale right :) ?
 
missin_hobo said:
The video demonstrates nothing
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Basically I agree, but this video does demonstrate to me that NO DESIGN is good enough to trust to foolish hands.

The person in the video not wearing protective gear demonstrates something to me...
 
Yes, I knew that video, made me really uneasy as that is something that EVERY knife should pass. Maybe a design flaw? But it should really be fixed under warranty.
 
First of all, that video is not a separate review of Umnamzaan, and didn't had in mind criticising CRK. It was a PART of a longer, complex test(link to which is posted in video details).

Another thing is "abuse", "destruction test", "hell of a beating". There is a testing group on polish knives.pl forum, they gather up money, buy a knife and test it. Of course not all test are the same - other testers, other preferences, other fridges :)
BUT actions performed with knives on those video are extra rare. There have been others folders that cut numerous tires, and folders that had been stabbed into fridges. And they worked properly after that. These aren't "destruction tests".

Those tests didn't had in mind to prove that CRK Umnamzaan is bad knife, but there were some concerns about ceramic ball lock. But, after all, Umn is the blade of the year 2008, and it should work at least as well as other folders, right? So Umn got no special treatment, just same hard work like others. But in the end, it had problems with the lock, as some of testers feared. Yes, I know there is an issue of overextending the locking bar, which cannot be recreated with linerlock knife, that overextension is a subject to other discussion.

Third thing - I am not a part of AFAIR there is an undergoing warranty procedure(or it will be started soon) for that knife. So CRK will get a look on that knife and will be able to answer at least to some of the issues about lock, ceramic ball, overextension, amount of "abuse" in the test, and the results of spine whack. But I just don't know if CRK or polish testers will be posting answer to BF, because this subject seems to bring a LOT of unintended negative emotions and personal attacks that are completely out of place.
 
I don't think it has been trough hell and back, a knife for that amount of money should handle this without problems unless it's a dress knife and the Umnumzaan is not.
I think a Strider would not fail on these tests.

But if you perform tasks like these on a daily base just get a good fixed blade because the lock is most likely to fail first on a folder.
 
Any knife that fails the spine whack on your little finger is a broken knife.

The question is whether the fridge stabbing caused the damage and whether that form of abuse is a reasonable test of knife durability. In an emergency, you might have to open a can of beans with your knife, and that would involve something like the fridge-stab. While abusive, any high-quality folder should be able to handle that job without lock failure, otherwise the guy doing the testing would not have any fingers on his knife hand.

Still, it's just one knife, and we don't know what went wrong. I hope that crucial bit of information is made public.
 
you can debate it all you want, the simple fact is that once the lock bar was severly hyper-extended any legitamate information that could have been gleamed from these so call tests went out the window.

everything that follows is now useless information as any real world perfromance data has been skewed; the knife was damaged before the tests really even began.

Any frame lock type knife would have failed if subjected to the same hyper extension and abusive treatment.

this test shows nothing except to prove that the old addage that pollacks are crazy ;)
 
Bierkameel said:
I don't think it has been trough hell and back, a knife for that amount of money should handle this without problems unless it's a dress knife and the Umnumzaan is not.
I think a Strider would not fail on these tests.

But if you perform tasks like these on a daily base just get a good fixed blade because the lock is most likely to fail first on a folder.
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bhahahahaha! What?!?!?!

ANYTHING can be brought to failure with enough abuse...

First off, by your logic, if I spend 1k on a folding knife, let's say...a gentleman's folder, it should withstand this abuse and a whatever I can put it through, despite still being a folding knife?
Cost is irrelevant- It is worth what people are willing to pay for it.
I am amazed that people expect the same level of performance out of a FOLDING knife as they do a fixed blade.

As for the statement of Strider not failing these tests, do you have some information or proof to this fact? If so, I would like to see it, otherwise, statements such as this come off as being trollish in nature.
 
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That guy is an idiot....plain and simple. Any knife will fail like that if it's abused in such a manner.
 
spidyman said:
you can debate it all you want, the simple fact is that once the lock bar was severly hyper-extended any legitamate information that could have been gleamed from these so call tests went out the window.

everything that follows is now useless information as any real world perfromance data has been skewed; the knife was damaged before the tests really even began.

Any frame lock type knife would have failed if subjected to the same hyper extension and abusive treatment.

this test shows nothing except to prove that the old addage that pollacks are crazy ;)
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Soooo, when knife is HYPER overextended? After single extension of 3mm(1/8inch )? What about being 100 times extended of 1/16inch, and what about 1000 times being extended of 1/32 inch? Because Umn has no lockbar stabilizer, so overextension will happen from time to time while closing.
But there is another thing - if overextension is the reason of failure it means that Umn is a knife you damage/destroy its lock with one single, simple move of finger. Just grab then knife, open the blade, extend the lock and tadam - your great new knife is now useless.

Any knife will fail like that if it's abused in such a manner.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ruVryahT7c
Spyderco tenacious, same tester, same fridge. Not every knife fail those tests.
 
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Stop it. Now. No more personal attacks. Discuss the test, discuss the knife, do NOT discuss each other. Leave the jerk-it smiley in Whine & Cheese.
 
I have never seen an Umnumzaan so my opinion doesn't mean much, but I don't understand why a youtube video seems to pull more weight than a drawer full of industry awards.
 
Personally I would left the judgement for eventual lock hyperextension and abuse of the knife to Chris Reeve himself and definitely would not judge by the photos alone. But what do I know...I am just a casual member of both forums for years. At least I am trying to be not biased in any direction. I always thought bladeforums is one of the most professional around - no hype, just facts. Guys be up to the mark, this forum deserves it.

pvicenzi said:
I have never seen an Umnumzaan so my opinion doesn't mean much, but I don't understand why a youtube video seems to pull more weight than a drawer full of industry awards.
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I know that CRK is one of the most highly regarded knife brands and not by a chance. I don't judge the design of a knife upon a single test. But I know nobody's perfect so I became suspicious. Remember first gen. Mercedes-Benz A-class? One of the worlds best automotive manufacturers after extensive testing launched... a mediocre car. Unbelivable! But true.
 
I wouldn't think stabbing a fridge is all that abusive. Refrigerators are made of a thin skin of steel, some foam, and plastic. The ones I have seen aren't all that much more thick than a beer can.

How much force do you think was applied to the knife? And is that force enough to cause damage? I personally don't think it would be all that hard to stab through like that. But I guess that means nothing.

This is why I try to stay away from liner and frame locks. Because they can wear out. I have done it with a kershaw with surprisingly little use. I'm not saying they will all wear out but some seem to while others don't even within the same model and you never know which one you will get.
 
idaho said:
But I just don't know if CRK or polish testers will be posting answer to BF, because this subject seems to bring a LOT of unintended negative emotions and personal attacks that are completely out of place.
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Just let it go... as you can see this isn't the place.

Post results somewhere else, and those that are interested will find them.

Robert
 
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