Umnumzaan grind messed up.

Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
1,349
I've had my Zaan for about a month now, bought it here off the exchange section. I finally bought myself a sharp maker and been using that to sharpen all my knives. It works great on everything I have except my CRK Umnumzaan- go figure. When I took a hard look to see if my 40 degree was hitting the left side of the blade I noticed that it wasn't, which makes me think this is obviously the reason why my Zaan isn't sharpening to its peak. I looks like the grind on the left side of the blade is steeper than the 40 degree angle the sharpmaker sets the stone at.

Am I looking at this completely wrong? Should I send it in to CRK and see if its something they can fix?

You're responses are greatly apreciated.

Best Regards,
Zack
 
CRK sharpens their knives by hand so small variations in angle is to be expected. the only thing they could "fix" is to resharpen it again the way they normally do which I don't think would help you. if you plan to continue to use your sharpmaker which is a great sharpener I would get the extra stones and re-profile the edge to match how you are holding/sharpening in the sharpmaker.
 
CRK sharpens their knives by hand so small variations in angle is to be expected. the only thing they could "fix" is to resharpen it again the way they normally do which I don't think would help you. if you plan to continue to use your sharpmaker which is a great sharpener I would get the extra stones and re-profile the edge to match how you are holding/sharpening in the sharpmaker.

Do you think getting the diamond stones spyderco sells is a good choice for re profile and sharpening? I just have the darker medium grit that come with the sharp maker and the white stones that make a razor sharp edge.
 
it will be long and tedious to re-profile without the diamond stones. I sharpen my umnumzaan on the sharpmaker starting with the dark grey stones that came with the set using the edge of the triangle for 20 or so strokes then switch to the flat side of the stone then do the same with the white stones. CRK sharpens their knives in the 18-20 degree range so depending on how vertical your holding the knife for each stroke you should end up with a decently sharp edge.

so if your in a rush and want that perfect edge now then getting the diamond stones would be the way to go also check out the ultrafine stones for a mirror finish. but if you want to save money keep in mind that it is only a matter of time till the sharpening your doing now re-profiles the edge and starts giving you what your looking for.
 
You could send it in to CRK to sharpen, but they're not going to match the angle exactly to your specifications. Your best bet is to reprofile it yourself.
 
I have had similar issues with other knives on my sharpmaker. I think my sharpmaker is slightly off somewhere. Either the. Plastic or the stones
 
If it is a user, re profile it yourself so you know where the angles are for future sharpening.
 
Looks like I'm going to reprofile it with a diamond stone or whatever its called. Slimshanee what did you do to fix this problem? Did you just buy another type of sharpener for those blades that didnt work on the Spyderco sharpener?
 
Also.....

Maybe look at something like Edge Pro which makes the job of re profiling very easy and gives you a very good even result.
 
I knew I should have spent the extra cash for the edge pro.

Also, is it normal for the umnumzaan to have an uneven bevel, with one side having a larger poslished edge than the other?

I noticed when trying to whittle wood the left side of the blade that I use when in my right hand, has a hard time whittling a stick of wood, but when I switch to my left hand the edge with the less bevel and polish, it cuts into the wood no problem. It makes sense because the angle of the bevel is steeper on the right side of the blade which makes angled cuts more effect. My question is, is this normal at all?
 
That doesn't sound normal. Definitely sound like the bevel is off.
If my sharpmaker is off, it is not by much. That is why I never worried about it. Sounds like your Umnum is off.
I think the sharpmaker is awesome for touch ups, because it hardly removes any of your knife blade to keep it screaming sharp.
I do have a seperate diamond set up for getting the bevels where I want them to begin with though.

Good luck!
 
I knew I should have spent the extra cash for the edge pro.
You should have...;)
I made the same mistake buying a The gatco edgemate with all the trimmies, but ended ip ordering an EP the next day!
Love it a lot!! Mirror edges and screaming sharp!!

But ita not too late for you to get one
 
just an opinion, I prefer to sharpen them by hand, takes little practice but then it's done, no more messing up, just enjoying
the edge height/bevel may either be off or less sharp, if it's less sharp it can happen that one side cuts better, even some burr may be the problem

IMO hand sharpen it (keepin it convex) and strop it, use a black marker to see where you'r grinding steel off and where not and you'll be fine
Maxx
 
I just emailed CRK, I'm going to send it in for a sharpening. Also I asked to see if they can even out the bevel on my blade when they resharpen it.

So do you think im better of going straight to the edge pro, instead of buying the diamond stones for the spyderco sharp maker?
 
Hello There,

All CRK as well as many others have their final blade grinds done by hand, so there will always be some slight variance in blade angles from one side to the next. When I made knives years ago, One side you can always get perfect as I always thought of it as my strong side, then when you go to the other, its always off slightly. In human hands, its virtually impossible to hold a knife at a perfect 20 degree angle. Not 19 and not 21, but 20 only, not going to happen, even with a company as great as CRK. But from all the knives I have ever owned from virtually every maker out there within reason, CRK is the closest.

I have had knives, including sebenzas, ZT, Strider, Hinderer, even the Neil Roberts I use to have where one side is perfect and the sharpmaker hits the blade where it should at a perfect 20 degree. The other side it will hit the top of the blade bevel and will not sharpen the edge. This is common in many knives as I stated above. Sometimes if its close, after a couple of sharpening's, it will be right where its supposed to be. Other times its way high up and basically needs a re-profile. If its that far off though, you can sharpen to your hearts content and you will not get a sharp edge. They only thing you will get is wasted time and aggravation in both the knife and sharpener in question.

I will mention that I only use the sharpmaker for knife sharpening. I have also used the vintage crock sticks, smiths, case crock sticks and the like ( all just like the sharpmaker or very similar ) for 25+ years, so I am very experienced in using this style of sharpening advise. With the sharpmaker and a sharpie, you can sharpen a knife to a perfect edge every time if you take your time and understand the sharpener and blade angles.

Far too many times I see beautiful knives ruined on the edgepro and wicked edge because people get carried away. You will see where the rounded part of the blade ( belly ) has had so much metal removed that the blade bevel is 2-3 times wider than near the tip or near the choil. Poor sharpening with poor sharpening devises. I am not about to ruin a $400 knife on such gimmicks. You can also do this on a sharpmaker if you don't know what your doing either.

With the sharpmaker's stock set ( brown and white stones ) you can do a full re-profile if your willing to put the time in. I re-profiled a strider smf on the sharpmaker. For those that have seen one, the blade is super thick. But when I went to sharpen it, it has the goofy strider 23 degree blade angle which the sharpmaker stones were hitting the very top of the blade bevel. I decided to re-profile it to a normal 20 degree angle. I used the brown stones and it took me 2 full hours. It was S30V and there RC is in the high 50's low 60's. So it is indeed hard............Sharpie the edge and then rather than work each side like I was sharpening it, I concentrated on each side individually. So you could say it took 1 hour per side. I have not invested in the diamond stones, so I cannot say much about them. I did look into getting them and have heard that you want to avoid using the triangle corners as the diamonds will flake off eventually and to use only the flats. I have also heard that they do speed up the re-profile time, but for their high price ( almost as much as the whole sharpmaker set ), I will just stick with the brown stones. ( I no longer have the smf as I sold it to buy another CRK, but I do have some pics in my photobucket for those wanting to see the results ). Just PM me and I will get em to ya.

As I said, sharpie the edge and sharpen one side down to where the sharpie is just getting removed from the blade edge. Then go to the other side. Make sure you use controlled strokes and are not swiping away on the ceramic rods like there is no tomorrow. Take care in what our doing. Once you get both edges to where the sharpie is just getting removed, then go to the white stones. Sometimes you have to reapply the sharpie a couple times during this process. The white stones supplied with the sharpmaker will give you that hair popping edge in no time. The 20 degree bevel is easy to maintain and is a strong blade bevel for normal applications. I did invest in the ultra fine rods and this will give you a mirror polished edge.
I will note: that when your sharpening the belly of the blade, you have to slightly tilt the blade inward to follow the curve of the blade. By NOT doing this, you will remove steel above the blade grind and thus having the high blade edge in the belly of the blade. This to me is where learning to use the sharpmaker and similar sharpeners excel. On the other sharpeners, it holds the blade flat and you cannot compensate for the belly of the blade. I saw several XM's lately that were ruined because of someone using the edge pro and wicked edge. The belly of the blades had so much metal removed that if measured, the belly of the blade probably had a 15 degree angle. Super sharp yes, but a very brittle blade edge very prone to nicking and rolling and chipping. Not what I want on Any knife.

I am going to have to do a video one of these days. I have had people ask in the past and now that I got a new digital camera, I am going to have to do so to help out my fellow forum friends. I just gotta get a small tripod.

I know I have rambled on here a little, but heed my advise and you will have a perfect edge with the sharpmaker in no time. With doing what I stated, you could have a perfect edge on your umnumzaan. Since you got it new and since you mentioned you spoke to CRK, by all means send it in as its something they will fix via warranty. Yes, the brown stones take longer than the diamond stones, but it can be down with some time.......I have read where someone stated I was crazy for spending 2 hours doing a reprofile...!!! To each their own. Anytime you want excellent results, you have to put the time in. This goes with Anything you do in life, knife sharpening included. Once done, you should not have to do it again. So if you do it right the first time, your knife edge is good to go for the long haul. Don't you think a knife costing $400 + is deserving of such time....? I think so......!!!
 
Hello There,

All CRK as well as many others have their final blade grinds done by hand, so there will always be some slight variance in blade angles from one side to the next. When I made knives years ago, One side you can always get perfect as I always thought of it as my strong side, then when you go to the other, its always off slightly. In human hands, its virtually impossible to hold a knife at a perfect 20 degree angle. Not 19 and not 21, but 20 only, not going to happen, even with a company as great as CRK. But from all the knives I have ever owned from virtually every maker out there within reason, CRK is the closest.

I have had knives, including sebenzas, ZT, Strider, Hinderer, even the Neil Roberts I use to have where one side is perfect and the sharpmaker hits the blade where it should at a perfect 20 degree. The other side it will hit the top of the blade bevel and will not sharpen the edge. This is common in many knives as I stated above. Sometimes if its close, after a couple of sharpening's, it will be right where its supposed to be. Other times its way high up and basically needs a re-profile. If its that far off though, you can sharpen to your hearts content and you will not get a sharp edge. They only thing you will get is wasted time and aggravation in both the knife and sharpener in question.

I will mention that I only use the sharpmaker for knife sharpening. I have also used the vintage crock sticks, smiths, case crock sticks and the like ( all just like the sharpmaker or very similar ) for 25+ years, so I am very experienced in using this style of sharpening advise. With the sharpmaker and a sharpie, you can sharpen a knife to a perfect edge every time if you take your time and understand the sharpener and blade angles.

Far too many times I see beautiful knives ruined on the edgepro and wicked edge because people get carried away. You will see where the rounded part of the blade ( belly ) has had so much metal removed that the blade bevel is 2-3 times wider than near the tip or near the choil. Poor sharpening with poor sharpening devises. I am not about to ruin a $400 knife on such gimmicks. You can also do this on a sharpmaker if you don't know what your doing either.

With the sharpmaker's stock set ( brown and white stones ) you can do a full re-profile if your willing to put the time in. I re-profiled a strider smf on the sharpmaker. For those that have seen one, the blade is super thick. But when I went to sharpen it, it has the goofy strider 23 degree blade angle which the sharpmaker stones were hitting the very top of the blade bevel. I decided to re-profile it to a normal 20 degree angle. I used the brown stones and it took me 2 full hours. It was S30V and there RC is in the high 50's low 60's. So it is indeed hard............Sharpie the edge and then rather than work each side like I was sharpening it, I concentrated on each side individually. So you could say it took 1 hour per side. I have not invested in the diamond stones, so I cannot say much about them. I did look into getting them and have heard that you want to avoid using the triangle corners as the diamonds will flake off eventually and to use only the flats. I have also heard that they do speed up the re-profile time, but for their high price ( almost as much as the whole sharpmaker set ), I will just stick with the brown stones. ( I no longer have the smf as I sold it to buy another CRK, but I do have some pics in my photobucket for those wanting to see the results ). Just PM me and I will get em to ya.

As I said, sharpie the edge and sharpen one side down to where the sharpie is just getting removed from the blade edge. Then go to the other side. Make sure you use controlled strokes and are not swiping away on the ceramic rods like there is no tomorrow. Take care in what our doing. Once you get both edges to where the sharpie is just getting removed, then go to the white stones. Sometimes you have to reapply the sharpie a couple times during this process. The white stones supplied with the sharpmaker will give you that hair popping edge in no time. The 20 degree bevel is easy to maintain and is a strong blade bevel for normal applications. I did invest in the ultra fine rods and this will give you a mirror polished edge.
I will note: that when your sharpening the belly of the blade, you have to slightly tilt the blade inward to follow the curve of the blade. By NOT doing this, you will remove steel above the blade grind and thus having the high blade edge in the belly of the blade. This to me is where learning to use the sharpmaker and similar sharpeners excel. On the other sharpeners, it holds the blade flat and you cannot compensate for the belly of the blade. I saw several XM's lately that were ruined because of someone using the edge pro and wicked edge. The belly of the blades had so much metal removed that if measured, the belly of the blade probably had a 15 degree angle. Super sharp yes, but a very brittle blade edge very prone to nicking and rolling and chipping. Not what I want on Any knife.

I am going to have to do a video one of these days. I have had people ask in the past and now that I got a new digital camera, I am going to have to do so to help out my fellow forum friends. I just gotta get a small tripod.

I know I have rambled on here a little, but heed my advise and you will have a perfect edge with the sharpmaker in no time. With doing what I stated, you could have a perfect edge on your umnumzaan. Since you got it new and since you mentioned you spoke to CRK, by all means send it in as its something they will fix via warranty. Yes, the brown stones take longer than the diamond stones, but it can be down with some time.......I have read where someone stated I was crazy for spending 2 hours doing a reprofile...!!! To each their own. Anytime you want excellent results, you have to put the time in. This goes with Anything you do in life, knife sharpening included. Once done, you should not have to do it again. So if you do it right the first time, your knife edge is good to go for the long haul. Don't you think a knife costing $400 + is deserving of such time....? I think so......!!!

Wonderful response! I particularly like when you discuss about tilting the blade forward when using the sharp maker to catch the belly and tip of the blade so you don't remove too much metal from you're edge. I've been doing exactly what you are suggesting but didn't know if it was the correct way of doing things. I tried as hard as I cold to follow the entire edge of the blade as I go down the sharpener all the way to the tip, but not past the tip so I don't round it.

And yes, a $400 knife is worth plenty of my time as a college kid not making a whole lot ;). I plan on using this knife till I can't anymore and its time for a new blade, then repeating the process! Hopefully I'll be able to hand it down to my future Children someday!

Thanks again for you're replies,
Zack
 
Your more than welcome. If you have any questions at all, just ask....! Always glad to help and share what I have learned.
 
I picked up an Umnumzaan today(my 1st CRK) from my local knife store and can see that I will need to do some work on my DMT stones to get the bevels right, especially near the tip. I'm actually kind of glad because I want to see how CRK s35vn compares to Spyderco's version as far as hardness and sharpening go.
 
I picked up an Umnumzaan today(my 1st CRK) from my local knife store and can see that I will need to do some work on my DMT stones to get the bevels right, especially near the tip. I'm actually kind of glad because I want to see how CRK s35vn compares to Spyderco's version as far as hardness and sharpening go.

They are run 1 point apart.....You're not going to feel anything different....
 
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