underage in michigain

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carter13

Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
166
what are the michigain knife laws regarding teenagers that are under eighteen. specificly im fifteen and want to know if carry is legal for me? if there are restrictions of blade length or anything. please help
 
Here's the statutes

Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
of not more than 2,500 dollars.

- 750.226a. Pocket knife opened by mechanical device...
Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or
any person who shall have in his possession any knife
having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or
blades of which can be opened by a flick of a button,
pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall
be guilty of a misdemeanor... [Also, concealed carry may
be charged as a felony under 750.227.] The provisions of
this section [750.226a] shall not apply to any one-armed
person carrying a knife on his person in connection with
his living requirements.

- 750.227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk,
stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of
any length, or any dangerous weapon, except a hunting
knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about
his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in
any vehicle... except in his or her dwelling house [or]
place of business... (3) A person who violates this
section is guilty of a felony...

- 750.222a Double-edged, nonfolding stabbing instrument defined.
(1) As used in this chapter, 'doubled-edged, nonfolding
stabbing instrument' does not include a knife, tool,
implement, arrowhead, or artifact manufactured from stone by
means of conchoidal fracturing.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to an item being transported
in a vehicle, unless the item is in a container and inaccessible
to the driver.
History: Add. 2000, Act 343, Imd. Eff. Dec. 27, 2000 .


- 259.80f Possessing... certain items in sterile area of airport;
(1) An individual shall not possess, carry, or attempt to possess
or carry any of the following in a sterile area of a commercial airport:
(a) Firearm.
(b) Explosive.
(c) Knife with a blade of any length.
(d) Razor, box cutter, or item with a similar blade.
(e) Dangerous weapon.
(2) Except as provided in subsection (3), an individual who
violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable
by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more
than $1,000.00, or both.
(3) An individual who violates subsection (1) while doing any of
the following is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for
not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both:
(a) Getting on or attempting to get on an aircraft.
(b) Placing, attempting to place, or attempting to have placed on an
aircraft an item listed in subsection (1).
(c) Committing or attempting to commit a felony.
(4) [Exempts most officials]...
(7) As used in this section:
(a) 'Commercial airport' means an airport that has regularly
scheduled commercial flights to and from other destinations.
(c) 'Sterile area' means that term as defined in 14 C.F.R. 107.1.
History: Add. 2001, Act 225, Eff. Apr. 1, 2002 .

- 380.1313 Dangerous weapon found in possession of pupil...
(1) If a dangerous weapon is found in the possession of a pupil
while the pupil is in attendance at school or a school activity
or while the pupil is enroute to or from school on a school bus,
the superintendent of the school district or intermediate school
district, or his or her designee, immediately shall report that
finding to the pupil's parent or legal guardian and the local
law enforcement agency.
(2) If a school official finds that a dangerous weapon is in the
possession of a pupil as described in subsection (1), the school
official may confiscate the dangerous weapon or shall request a
law enforcement agency to respond as soon as possible and to
confiscate the dangerous weapon. If a school official confiscates
a dangerous weapon under this subsection, the school official
shall give the dangerous weapon to a law enforcement agency and
shall not release the dangerous weapon to any other person,
including the legal owner of the dangerous weapon. A school
official who complies in good faith with this section is not
civilly or criminally liable for that compliance...
(4) As used in this section, 'dangerous weapon' means a firearm,
dagger, dirk, stiletto, knife with a blade over 3 inches in length,
pocket knife opened by a mechanical device, iron bar, or brass knuckles.
History: Add. 1987, Act 211, Imd. Eff. Dec. 22, 1987 ;--Am. 1995,
Act 76, Eff. Aug. 1, 1995 .
Popular Name: Act 451

*

Michigan Case Law:
- "Constitutionality: The double jeopardy protection against
multiple punishment for the same offense is a restriction
on a court's ability to impose punishment in excess of that
intended by the Legislature, not a limit on the Legislature's
power to define crime and fix punishment. People v. Sturgis,
427 Mich. 392, 397 N.W.2d 783 (1986).

- "Purpose of this section is to prevent quarreling or
criminal persons from suddenly drawing weapons without
notice to other persons." (1980)

- "Purpose of concealed weapons statutes, such as this
section, is to prevent men in sudden quarrel or in
commission of crime from drawing concealed weapons and
using them without prior notice to their victims that they
were armed, inasmuch as person attacked would behave one
way if he knew his assailant was armed and perhaps another
way if he could safely presume that assailant was
unarmed." (1969)

- "The basic intent of the legislature as indicated in
concealed weapon statute was that weapons should not be
carried when they might be used to take lives." (1968)

_ "...the 'dwelling house' exception to the concealed weapons
statute did not apply to defendant who was incarcerated in
state prison at time of alleged commission of such
offense." (1978)

- "Purpose or intent with which a weapon is carried is not an
element of offense of carrying a concealed weapon." (1973)
- "Jury's determination that knife sharpening steel, which
defendant... contended he carried only for protection...
was a concealed weapon, was justified." (1971)

- "Straight razor in pocket of defendant was 'concealed'..."
(1967)

- "Daggers, dirks, stilettos... and similar articles,
designed for the purpose of bodily assault or defense, are
generally recognized as 'dangerous weapons per se'..."
(1945)

- "Pocket knives, razors, hammers, hatchets, wrenches,
cutting tools, and other articles would constitute
'dangerous weapons'... if used or carried for use as
weapons." (1945)

- "An ordinary jackknife with a pointed blade 3-5/16 inches
long was not a 'dangerous weapon...' in the absence of
evidence that it was used or carried for use as a weapon."
(1945)

- "Five-inch, double-edged, nonfolding knife was not a
'hunting knife' within hunting knife exception..." (1989)

- "Defendant charged with carrying concealed weapon had
burden of proving that hunting knife was 'adapted and
carried as such'..." (1980)


http://www.knife-expert.com


Nothing that I see pertaining to age. Of course don't carry at school.

However I would assume that an officer might have a different view of a teenager carrying a knife than a middle aged person. I'm young myself (24) and I feel that this would be the case for me as well.

If I were you I would keep it under the widely understood but actually incorrect 3" blade limit, and stay away from tacticool stuff. A locking SAK or a Buck knife, something traditional looking is unlikely to draw as much attention. And the knife is never a "weapon" if you are asked, it's a tool for cutting up your apples, opening packages, etc.

Probably the best advice is to look and act like someone who an LEO would not worry about having a pocket knife on them. This is how I mainly operate.

Also your geography is likely a very important thing to consider. Rural parts of the state you're very unlikely to be hastled about a pocket knife. However in urban areas or suburbia discretion is also important. I'll carry just about anything I want when I'm up north, but here in Detroit it's a much different story.

Just be careful and don't bring a knife to school. It is so much different now than it was even when I was in school. I nearly always had some sort of blade on me (rarely more than a small SAK), but sometimes I would carry my Kershaw onion. Many of my teachers knew I had a knife, and would often ask to borrow it for things (my leatherman micra made many a last minute pre-concert insturment repair), but I was the type of person who they knew they could trust with a knife.

So all in all, be the kind of person than can be seen as trustworthy to carry a blade, but I wouldn't carry at school. If you do this, and don't carry anything ridiculous or do anything ridiculous you probably won't have any problems.

Anyone else have another viewpoint?
 
carter13 said:
is an uncoated mini grip to tacti-cool? no serations either black handle
Click to expand...

Ultimately it is for you to decide, but in my eyes I think that a mini grip would be ok. Well known brand, not a huge blade, no serrations and an uncoated blade all work towards making the knife look less like a weapon and more like a tool.

I would watch when I use the pocket clip though. In my eyes it doesn't pay to advertise, at least as a young person. Although if the clip on the mini-grip is like the one on my fullsize grip it's a pretty low riding non-discript clip right?

Yet again this is only my opinion, it's ultimately about what you feel comfortable doing/carrying. Also if you don't put yourself into an situations where you're likely to have to interact with law enforcement, it's unlikely you will ever have any problems with the knife you're carrying. Be smart, and stay out of trouble, and everything will likely be fine.
 
I live in Lansing and I have never had a problem carrying a knife on my person but I am 32. At your age I would never carry anything like a mini grip I can see that knife too easily being looked at as a weapon in the hands of a young person ,you might want to try finding a more traditional style knife until you are older a SAK or leatherman maybe a drop point lockback with no clip something like that .When I was 15 I could carry an endura1 and no one ever said a word but I pretty much kept it a secret and pocket clips where not common knowledge then,now many LEOs look for pocket clips .Welcome to knife collecting and the world of knives as tools and toys take great care not to draw attention to yourself and always be respectful of others and you should never have a problem.
 
laws were never a concern of ours growing up. knives were carried by everyone. belt, pocket, didn't matter. our parents and grandparents gave us knives to carry with us as a tool no matter where we were. knives were allowed in school, even in elementary. the teachers would confiscate your knife if you were playing with it in class (i.e. carving your name in the desk or floor and such) then at recess we would simply sneak in and take our knife back out of her desk! teachers would ask if a student had a knife that they could borrow.
my mother is a teacher in AL and it is still the same way!
point is: i'm sorry that you even had to ask the question!!
times are a changin'.
 
The 3" limit is only when you have "...intent to use the same unlawfully
against the person of another..." The word "intent" is tricky, because when you're carrying a knife over 3" you might have to prove before judge and jury that you have no intention of hurting others, and that's tough. People play it safe by going under 3", because then they don't need to prove anything.

I second thebrain's suggestion to carry SAK or Leatherman. Even if you accidentally brought it to school (which you must always remember not to), a multitool is less likely to get you in trouble.
 
cmdionne said:
If I were you I would keep it under the widely understood but actually incorrect 3" blade limit
Click to expand...

You can carry more than 3 inch blade, but if it's under 3 inch, you don't have to explain it.:thumbup:
 
Since you are still a minor, consider that you might be prudent to stick with items that would universally be considered a "regular pocket knife".....think Case Trapper, Stockman, Congress, etc. A BSA emblem on the handle would be a plus.
 
I'm going to say it's best not to get legal advise off of an internet forum..

read the law, if in doubt contact local law enforcement (since thats who you'll probably come in contact with anyway)

Remember, a cop seeing a kid on a tractor or farm with a fixed blade is probably going to not think twice about it. A kid walking downtown is another story.
 
The LEOS I have asked about the knife blade length thing all said they where not sure what the law was and that they thought the 3 inch thing was a state law and that local city ordinance could allow longer blade lengths (or limit further)in some jurisdictions but didn`t know what the law was in my city(Lansing) so best to be safe all around and carry a shorter than 3 inch blade and do not show a pocket clip and stay out of trouble and away from troublemakers and all should be OK .I would keep an eye out for a law officer around your town and ask (make sure he isn`t too busy)what your city has to say about it ??(your city may have an outright ban on carry for people your age within city limits).
 
Last edited:
here in VA (not northern va) people really dont care but we have enough rural areas around and enough rednecks that police dont look at small knives as weapons. of course i never carried a knife at school but i have a friend that did in HS and his teachers never cared because he always used it to help them do things and they knew he wasnt going to stab some one.

in a more rural(ish) area the cops are going to not care as much if a teenager is carrying a small pocket knife.

heck i carry 2 knives every day with me at school now (in college) but i am also in an art department (craft/material studies doing metal work and glass blowing) so having a knife around is extremely common and instructors are fine with it

in short, ask a local LEO, be polite when you do and say it in a way that they cant take it that you are carrying it as a weapon

-matt
 
skimmerhorn said:
laws were never a concern of ours growing up. knives were carried by everyone. belt, pocket, didn't matter. our parents and grandparents gave us knives to carry with us as a tool no matter where we were. knives were allowed in school, even in elementary. the teachers would confiscate your knife if you were playing with it in class (i.e. carving your name in the desk or floor and such) then at recess we would simply sneak in and take our knife back out of her desk! teachers would ask if a student had a knife that they could borrow.
my mother is a teacher in AL and it is still the same way!
Click to expand...

no offense meant to you, but i'm gonna call BS.
i dunno where in AL you are, but last time i checked(august-ish. two siblings still in -i still read the handbook each year) getting caught with a knife in school is still grounds for suspension at the least if they so choose. while i was in highschool(dunno about now) most of the staff you could bring a knife to if you found it in your jacket pocket and they'd hold it till the end of the day, no fuss(rural area=more relaxed attitude and all that. one teacher would even take the odd shotgun shell, you wouldn't get those back though), but no teacher would ever ask a student for a knife and no student in their right mind would carry one into the building, let alone openly.
 
Read the law and interpret it as you see fit, this will help you to memorize it so that you know the ins and outs of the law. I am 24 and live in West Michigan. I have carried a knife (my first real knife was also BM Mini Grip as a matter of fact) since I was 16. I would bring a small Gerber LST to school and never got asked about it; even after Columbine my High School defined a weapon as a knife with a blade over 3". I am now in college and carry a T-Mag because it looks friendly and has a 2.9" blade.

I interpret the law for myself as: I can carry any folder I want if I don't use it for trouble. I carry only big blades as of late, because that is what I like. I usually have either my BM710, Manix, ZT 0200, Military, or another other 4"+ knife on me when in public and never have had a complaint (everyone I know asks me to cut stuff though). I dress nice and don't go places where I can get into trouble. I would never use my knife for self defense, that is why I have a CPL. Carrying a knife is a responsibility, always treat it like a tool and don't use it if you think you will draw a questioning eye.

Good luck,
Have fun,
Michaelmcgo
 
cmdionne said:
Here's the statutes

Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
of not more than 2,500 dollars.

- 750.226a. Pocket knife opened by mechanical device...
Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or
any person who shall have in his possession any knife
having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or
blades of which can be opened by a flick of a button,
pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall
be guilty of a misdemeanor... [Also, concealed carry may
be charged as a felony under 750.227.] The provisions of
this section [750.226a] shall not apply to any one-armed
person carrying a knife on his person in connection with
his living requirements.

- 750.227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk,
stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of
any length, or any dangerous weapon, except a hunting
knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about
his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in
any vehicle... except in his or her dwelling house [or]
place of business... (3) A person who violates this
section is guilty of a felony...

- 750.222a Double-edged, nonfolding stabbing instrument defined.
(1) As used in this chapter, 'doubled-edged, nonfolding
stabbing instrument' does not include a knife, tool,
implement, arrowhead, or artifact manufactured from stone by
means of conchoidal fracturing.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to an item being transported
in a vehicle, unless the item is in a container and inaccessible
to the driver.
History: Add. 2000, Act 343, Imd. Eff. Dec. 27, 2000 .


- 259.80f Possessing... certain items in sterile area of airport;
(1) An individual shall not possess, carry, or attempt to possess
or carry any of the following in a sterile area of a commercial airport:
(a) Firearm.
(b) Explosive.
(c) Knife with a blade of any length.
(d) Razor, box cutter, or item with a similar blade.
(e) Dangerous weapon.
(2) Except as provided in subsection (3), an individual who
violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable
by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more
than $1,000.00, or both.
(3) An individual who violates subsection (1) while doing any of
the following is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for
not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both:
(a) Getting on or attempting to get on an aircraft.
(b) Placing, attempting to place, or attempting to have placed on an
aircraft an item listed in subsection (1).
(c) Committing or attempting to commit a felony.
(4) [Exempts most officials]...
(7) As used in this section:
(a) 'Commercial airport' means an airport that has regularly
scheduled commercial flights to and from other destinations.
(c) 'Sterile area' means that term as defined in 14 C.F.R. 107.1.
History: Add. 2001, Act 225, Eff. Apr. 1, 2002 .

- 380.1313 Dangerous weapon found in possession of pupil...
(1) If a dangerous weapon is found in the possession of a pupil
while the pupil is in attendance at school or a school activity
or while the pupil is enroute to or from school on a school bus,
the superintendent of the school district or intermediate school
district, or his or her designee, immediately shall report that
finding to the pupil's parent or legal guardian and the local
law enforcement agency.
(2) If a school official finds that a dangerous weapon is in the
possession of a pupil as described in subsection (1), the school
official may confiscate the dangerous weapon or shall request a
law enforcement agency to respond as soon as possible and to
confiscate the dangerous weapon. If a school official confiscates
a dangerous weapon under this subsection, the school official
shall give the dangerous weapon to a law enforcement agency and
shall not release the dangerous weapon to any other person,
including the legal owner of the dangerous weapon. A school
official who complies in good faith with this section is not
civilly or criminally liable for that compliance...
(4) As used in this section, 'dangerous weapon' means a firearm,
dagger, dirk, stiletto, knife with a blade over 3 inches in length,
pocket knife opened by a mechanical device, iron bar, or brass knuckles.
History: Add. 1987, Act 211, Imd. Eff. Dec. 22, 1987 ;--Am. 1995,
Act 76, Eff. Aug. 1, 1995 .
Popular Name: Act 451

*

Michigan Case Law:
- "Constitutionality: The double jeopardy protection against
multiple punishment for the same offense is a restriction
on a court's ability to impose punishment in excess of that
intended by the Legislature, not a limit on the Legislature's
power to define crime and fix punishment. People v. Sturgis,
427 Mich. 392, 397 N.W.2d 783 (1986).

- "Purpose of this section is to prevent quarreling or
criminal persons from suddenly drawing weapons without
notice to other persons." (1980)

- "Purpose of concealed weapons statutes, such as this
section, is to prevent men in sudden quarrel or in
commission of crime from drawing concealed weapons and
using them without prior notice to their victims that they
were armed, inasmuch as person attacked would behave one
way if he knew his assailant was armed and perhaps another
way if he could safely presume that assailant was
unarmed." (1969)

- "The basic intent of the legislature as indicated in
concealed weapon statute was that weapons should not be
carried when they might be used to take lives." (1968)

_ "...the 'dwelling house' exception to the concealed weapons
statute did not apply to defendant who was incarcerated in
state prison at time of alleged commission of such
offense." (1978)

- "Purpose or intent with which a weapon is carried is not an
element of offense of carrying a concealed weapon." (1973)
- "Jury's determination that knife sharpening steel, which
defendant... contended he carried only for protection...
was a concealed weapon, was justified." (1971)

- "Straight razor in pocket of defendant was 'concealed'..."
(1967)

- "Daggers, dirks, stilettos... and similar articles,
designed for the purpose of bodily assault or defense, are
generally recognized as 'dangerous weapons per se'..."
(1945)

- "Pocket knives, razors, hammers, hatchets, wrenches,
cutting tools, and other articles would constitute
'dangerous weapons'... if used or carried for use as
weapons." (1945)

- "An ordinary jackknife with a pointed blade 3-5/16 inches
long was not a 'dangerous weapon...' in the absence of
evidence that it was used or carried for use as a weapon."
(1945)

- "Five-inch, double-edged, nonfolding knife was not a
'hunting knife' within hunting knife exception..." (1989)

- "Defendant charged with carrying concealed weapon had
burden of proving that hunting knife was 'adapted and
carried as such'..." (1980)


http://www.knife-expert.com


Nothing that I see pertaining to age. Of course don't carry at school.

However I would assume that an officer might have a different view of a teenager carrying a knife than a middle aged person. I'm young myself (24) and I feel that this would be the case for me as well.

If I were you I would keep it under the widely understood but actually incorrect 3" blade limit, and stay away from tacticool stuff. A locking SAK or a Buck knife, something traditional looking is unlikely to draw as much attention. And the knife is never a "weapon" if you are asked, it's a tool for cutting up your apples, opening packages, etc.

Probably the best advice is to look and act like someone who an LEO would not worry about having a pocket knife on them. This is how I mainly operate.

Also your geography is likely a very important thing to consider. Rural parts of the state you're very unlikely to be hastled about a pocket knife. However in urban areas or suburbia discretion is also important. I'll carry just about anything I want when I'm up north, but here in Detroit it's a much different story.

Just be careful and don't bring a knife to school. It is so much different now than it was even when I was in school. I nearly always had some sort of blade on me (rarely more than a small SAK), but sometimes I would carry my Kershaw onion. Many of my teachers knew I had a knife, and would often ask to borrow it for things (my leatherman micra made many a last minute pre-concert insturment repair), but I was the type of person who they knew they could trust with a knife.

So all in all, be the kind of person than can be seen as trustworthy to carry a blade, but I wouldn't carry at school. If you do this, and don't carry anything ridiculous or do anything ridiculous you probably won't have any problems.

Anyone else have another viewpoint?
Click to expand...
A knife is either legal or illegal to possess or carry. If an officer makes exceptions for middle aged people but arrests teenagers for the same activity, this is discrimination, which is illegal in all 50 states. Such an officer will be exposing himself/herself and their agency to potential lawsuits.
 
TOM1960 said:
A knife is either legal or illegal to possess or carry. If an officer makes exceptions for middle aged people but arrests teenagers for the same activity, this is discrimination, which is illegal in all 50 states. Such an officer will be exposing himself/herself and their agency to potential lawsuits.
Click to expand...

you are correct but you also have to remember that with the way everything is now being underage basically takes away some rights, a pocket knife could be one of them if the officer wants to be a prick and claim it as a weapon,

-matt
 
TOM1960 said:
A knife is either legal or illegal to possess or carry. If an officer makes exceptions for middle aged people but arrests teenagers for the same activity, this is discrimination, which is illegal in all 50 states. Such an officer will be exposing himself/herself and their agency to potential lawsuits.
Click to expand...


Of coure treating a middle aged person versus a teenager differently about a knife is discriminatory. This however does not mean that officers don't do this.

Try driving through my neighborhood at 2am in a nice newer higher end sedan, dressed well.

Then do it in a broken down beater, wearing baggy jeans and a basketball jersery.

In one of these cases you will be pulled over, in the other you will be left alone. Yes it's wrong, but yes it does happen. I was not saying that the OP SHOULD have to worry about what he carries, simply that he DOES.
 
I live in AK and I've been carrying a knife since... probably like I was 12 or younger, and i live in Anchorage which is a good sized city, never had problems with it, unless you go into a federal building, then they make you put it in your car. I sometimes carry several knives with me, all the time.

Maybe use a knife where the pocket clip looks like a pen clip, such as the E.T. Kershaw. The ZT knives have pretty big clips and probably wouldnt be the best to carry around.

But hey I live in ALaska and we all carry knives. Probably most kids carry them to school too. I am homeschooled and carry it to school everyday :D
 
SR_matt said:
you are correct but you also have to remember that with the way everything is now being underage basically takes away some rights, a pocket knife could be one of them if the officer wants to be a prick and claim it as a weapon,

-matt
Click to expand...
The only "rights" that are age-dependant (as far as I can tell), are the right to vote (18 years), the right to enlist in the armed forces without parental approval (18 years), the right to sign a binding contract (18 years) and the right to get married without parental consent (18 years). 18-year-olds have the right to purchase certain categories of firearms as well (rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders and ammunition). You must be 21 to legally consume alcoholic beverages or to purchase a handgun. I will not even touch the subject of drivers' licenses, since driving is not a right but a privilege. Carrying a knife or other weapon in schools and public buildings is prohibited for everyone, not just young people. Carrying a knife on the street? Like I said, if the knife is legal, anyone can carry it. If illegal, age will not play a factor. The only difference would be in the venue for prosecution (juvenile court vs. adult court).
 
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