Uninformed Damascus question.

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Nov 1, 2005
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I would like to make damascus. Nothing fancy. I have a Nc knife makers forge a 100lb anvil and hammers ranging to 16lb. What I want to know is this. What is the easiest(sp) metals to use? I was looking around and read about O -1 and L6. Is there an easier set to give a good contrast? This is a project that I am willing to spend around 100$ for the metal on. I have plenty of time and propane. So can y'all give me an idea?
 
Sam's suggestion is spot-on, you can't get much easier. Now, read all of the stickies in the "good info here" section and prepare for a long learning curve. It's possible to learn how to forge weld by reading and watching lots of videos, it's also theoretically possible to learn to fly a 747 that way too. If you can get someone to show you how to do it you will be much happier. Make friends with someone local or go to a hammer-in

-Page
 
Sam is right on with his suggestion. 1084 & 15n20 match very well as far as heat treat goes, make for very nice contrasting steel, and stick like glue to each other.

If you're just getting started, take a look at my pattern welding website. It will help you out with some of the basics. Also, feel free to drop me an email or PM if you have any questions and I'll be happy to help you out if I can.

-d
 
A basic arc welder or better will make you life much easier since it allows you to start with a stack of steel and a handle for controlling the billet. That part made everything else much easier for me.
 
Hi,

I don't know a lot about damscus as I've only worked with Indian George a bit for the last two summers. I've gotten tips from Deker, Dan Seaver and Del Ealy via the forum, email and phone. Here's a thread that might give you a few ideas, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657715.

Deker's site will give you lots of good tips. You might want to email Kelly Cupples, octihunter@charter.net, for his metals list. He sells both 15N20 and 1080. Admiral steel has a "box sale" deal on .125"x1.25"x60" 1084 for $7 a piece that works well. You can have Kelly shear the 15N20 to 1.25" to match up with it.

The 15N20 you'll get will likely only be .0625 (1/16th"), whereas the 1084 will likely be .125" (1/8"). You might be best off just layering it up 2 to 1 1084 to 15N20, rather than doubling the 15N20 up to match the 1084. I believe the 15N20 is a bit harder to move than the 1084. Hammering it by hand, you might appreciate having a bit less of it and you can still get nice patterns. You'll probably want to keep your billet on the small side. Perhaps about 4" long and just an inch or two high (maybe something like 8 layers of 1084 and 7 of 15N20?).

Do you have a stick or wire welder of some sort? That helps to run a bead on the ends to keep it all together prior to forge welding. You can also weld a length of rebar, or some such, on one end for a handle. You'll need an angle grinder to clean the scale off the forged billet and cut it in half (almost) to fold over and build up your layer count. You'll also need a couple good size hammers. A straight peen will come in handy for drawing out. The opposite hammer head (rounding) will do well for flattening and straightening. Have a good supply of flux (borax) on hand as you'll need copious amounts of it.

Of course there's probably oodles more. For instance, you likely will want to use your anvil's horn in a fuller like manner along with the straight pein for drawing your billet out. Have a good stiff wire brush to clean the flux and scale off (brush away from you) and a bucket of water handy to cool off your billet handle. Good long leather welding gloves can be handy with all the blasting forge fire and billet thermal mass. Naturally good safety glasses are imperative. If you can put a disposable ceramic or fire brick liner down on the floor of your forge you'll probably appreciate being able to remove it and get the melted flux out after, so you can forge knives later cleanly without getting them covered with flux.

And the adventure begins. How exciting!

All the best, Phil
 
I am still working with a blade smith to learn the finer points. He has a formal job and isnt always making blades. Hence the questions. I want to work at it any time I can. The welder I can get. It was something I had thought of and forgot. What I am currently wondering is if I can get the billit to weld with just hand tools. I know its possible. I am just not sure, at this point, if I can do it. Hell you never know unless you try. Time to call Admiral steel. Later. Thanks
 
You can totally get a billet to weld using hand tools. That's how most of us learn. It's very rewarding when you get it. Another thought, if you want good practice at hand welding billets, you could start out with cable steel. It has an easy learning curve.
 
I am still working with a blade smith to learn the finer points. He has a formal job and isnt always making blades. Hence the questions. I want to work at it any time I can. The welder I can get. It was something I had thought of and forgot. What I am currently wondering is if I can get the billit to weld with just hand tools. I know its possible. I am just not sure, at this point, if I can do it. Hell you never know unless you try. Time to call Admiral steel. Later. Thanks

I always teach folks to weld by hand. There are a lot of cues that will tell you about the quality and success of your welding that you can only get while setting your welds by hand. Most notable (for me anyways) is the sound of a weld setting properly. I've been known to be across a shop with my back turned to somebody who's welding and I will be able to tell them if their weld set or not. There's a definite feel and sound to a weld that you'll get to recognize as you start down this path. Remember, it doesn't take a He-Man to set a forge weld. To the contrary, if you hit it too hard, it will not weld because you're shearing the layers away from each other. What's needed is a rapid succession of medium weight blows from one end of the billet to the other.

Take care,

-d
 
I always teach folks to weld by hand. There are a lot of cues that will tell you about the quality and success of your welding that you can only get while setting your welds by hand. Most notable (for me anyways) is the sound of a weld setting properly. I've been known to be across a shop with my back turned to somebody who's welding and I will be able to tell them if their weld set or not. There's a definite feel and sound to a weld that you'll get to recognize as you start down this path. Remember, it doesn't take a He-Man to set a forge weld. To the contrary, if you hit it too hard, it will not weld because you're shearing the layers away from each other. What's needed is a rapid succession of medium weight blows from one end of the billet to the other.-d

Take care,
This is something that I didnt know. I always assumed that it was the power that made the welds. I went with this assumption in regards to power hammers or multiple strikers. IIRC there was an article in Blade years back. Now that I am thinking about it I think it was titled The Nuclear Bladesmith. He made damascus by hand. Time to go searching again. Thanks for the information.
 
I had 2 blades weld together inside the forge. No striking at all. It was a bear to get them apart too. I was working the 2 from different ends of a whisper mama and the tips touched. Everything was perfect and they stuck together. It takes force only to reduce the billet for the next fold and weld. That is where the power hammer and press come into play. An average person would be hard pressed to reduce a 20lb billet by hand. It can be done but I don't want to try. A 5lber is hard enough.
 
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