Union offers deal to Camillus Cutlery

I thought I better get them while the getting is good, or as good as it will likely ever be again.
Today I ordered a BK10, GP12, GP34, GP152, a couple Westmark Barlows made by Camillus, a 711Y yellow stockman and a Camco speed assist sheepfoot (I know it is made over seas & not a "real" Camillus). I suppose that is all my card than take for the moment........It was smoking when I finished. :D

I still need a couple more to complete the Gran'pa series. I need a GP8, but haven't found one yet.

Dale
 
One on Ebay, with shipping and insurance, mine was 36.15.
Oh yea, forgot.... some people are spelling it Grandpa.
 
orvet said:
I thought I better get them while the getting is good, or as good as it will likely ever be again.
Today I ordered a BK10, GP12, GP34, GP152, a couple Westmark Barlows made by Camillus, a 711Y yellow stockman and a Camco speed assist sheepfoot (I know it is made over seas & not a "real" Camillus). I suppose that is all my card than take for the moment........It was smoking when I finished. :D

I still need a couple more to complete the Gran'pa series. I need a GP8, but haven't found one yet.

Dale
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MAN! Nice pickups and timely too it looks like. I've wanted a max for years but figured I would wait for the hype to die down and pick one up on the cheap. I figure at this point they will only get harder to find.
 
KKHansen said:
I could see it if Camillus was bought but for the present managment/owners to start a repack company using Imported Blades that is just wrong.

US citizens lose jobs while big business goes on as usual and now even small business.

Karsten
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I can see that there is a missunderstanding here. Camillus is no big business, and the owners are not getting rich. The company is broke and whether it sells or not the owners will get nothing. The company has been run by an outside contractor during the strike, who knows nothing about the business and he is not there for the long haul...just to sell or liquidate the assets.
Before the strike, there was a plan for a new owner to grow the company, increase marketing and distribution, and focus on becoming an EXPORTER of US MADE goods....made in America by Americans. Great progress was being made in that respect. There was even a plan to develop blended packages (imports and US made) for a more appealing price structure and make more affordable the retail sale of the US made knives, but the company would have been a net producer of domestically made knives, with some import sales.

That was the plan till Mr. Valenti and the union he represents unwisely orchestrated the strike, killed and any opportunity for change of ownership and kept buyers own with the unsubstantiated and proposterous unfair labor practice suit.

Most of the skilled workers have found other jobs and Camillus will never be the same. The people still there (salaried) are very dedicated and are working hard to keep the doors open, but the owners have for all practical purposes abandoned the business. The bank is trying to stem the losses by trying to sell pieces off, namely the distribution channel. Many people have been trying to save the manufacturing facility, including a great interest from the county. But the strike killed any chances for continuation of business, retain employment, and continued production. The silly thing was that it didn't matter what was agreed in the new contract, because the new ownership would have been a different corporation and would have to renegotiate anyway. The strike was useless, and killed the continuation of business. Now, anyone can get in for peanuts and buy the distribution channels, use the company as a shell and flow imports through it like many other knife companies are doing now.

The present plan to go to all imports is BECAUSE of the strike and the union's stance......Unions are changing throughout the country, and actually work with companies to keep business here. But Camillus' union was still holding on to the past, and behaved irresponsibly in this case. And people should not be silent about it anymore. What a shame.......
 
Well, I got my BK-10, CGP12 & CGP34 yesterday. Nice knives! I have another order coming from a different company. Too bad Camillus will be a thing of the past.

At one time unions were there to help the people. I think today too many of them are just there to make money for themselves. I was a member of the Public Employees Union in Oregon. They tell you who to vote for (I tell them to stick it) and their candidates are always the ones they think will give them the most power. The last election their "Union approved" candidate really put the screws to the state workers. Yet they are still supporting him for reelection. WHAT A JOKE! :barf:

I have a soft spot in my heart & collection for Camillus. I carried a Camillus TL in the Marine Corps, including through Vietnam. I still have it and it still has a super sharp edge. I will miss Camillus. My best to the workers. Maybe there can be some 11 hour bail out. That would be nice.
 
knifeintheheart said:
I can see that there is a missunderstanding here. Camillus is no big business, and the owners are not getting rich.....
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For a bit of perspective, here is a photo of the Camillus Cutlery factory circa 1996. As you can see, compared to the ISC Ellenville facility, it is quite small.


Aerial view of the Ellenville ISC factory:


Also considerably smaller in terms of employees. The fact that Camillus could survive so long and turn out the quantity of knives they did from this antequated factory is a rather strong testiment to the inginuity and dedication of the workers employed there.

As a further illustration of the difference in size, at it's height of operations circa 1986, ISC had gross sales in excess of 100 million dollars, and a total of over 2,000 employees worldwide. Anyone have last year's figures on Camillus for gross reciepts and employment?

Codger
 
So how is the current situation for Camillius over there? Is it advisable for poeple outside US to buy their products? BTW, do they have a warranty on them?
 
acwire_2125 said:
Is it advisable for poeple outside US to buy their products?
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I guess that is something you have to decide for yourself. Do you want a well made quality product? Is it the right design for the job you want to do? Camillus products are better than most of the cheap junk made overseas. To get a product of comparable quality made overseas (for example in Japan) you will likely pay more than the comparable Camillus product, IMHO.


acwire_2125 said:
BTW, do they have a warranty on them?
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Camillus products have a limited lifetime warranty, according to their web site. But if the company goes out of business the warranty won't mean a thing. However they are of such good quality I wouldn't hesitate to buy them. I have several Camillus users & I do use them.

Just my $.02,
Dale
 
Hello. This is my first post here in this forum although I have been lurking here for some time. I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I recently attempted to contact camillus via email in regards to returning a knife for warranty work, that was about 4 days ago- still no answer. It is a shame that America is about to lose another of its great cutlers. I only own a few of their knives, but they are well made.
acwire_2125: I, like orvet, would recommend buying their knives while you can, regardless of the questionable future of the company.

By the way- the only reason I need to return the knife for work is the previous owner abused it- no reflection on the knife's quality.

Nick
 
You can buy it and have a good quality knife to use as they were intended, or put back as a collectable as you so choose. If warranties are a chief concern, then you might consider another brand at this point. In all my years as a knife user and owner, I've only needed to return one knife for work. The shield fell out of the handle and was lost. It did not affect function in any way, but I sent it in to have the shield replaced. It was done without charge though the knife was twenty years old. This was a Schrade in the late 1990's by the way.

Codger
 
In all my years of using & collecting knives I have sent 2 knives back to the maker for problems. One was a Schrade LB7 that I got in trade from a guy. It had a broken spring when I got it. They replaced it at no charge.

The other was an early Al Mar. I bought 2 of them, one for myself & one for my Dad. The back spring broke on my Dad's, so I took it back. Al himself apologized and said they were from an earlier maker and he had replaced most of them & was surprised that I had found two in a small store. Apparently he had done a recall on them. He replaced my Dad's knife with a new knife (more expensive than the original) and offered to replace mine as well, even though there was nothing wrong with it. I declined his offer and still have the knife to this day.

My point is that a well made knife (not the cheap piece of junk) will usually not fail when used for the purpose the knife was designed. I buy Camillus knives with confidence that I am getting a good quality product that will fulfill it's intended purpose! :)

Dale
 
Oh knifeintheheart, it never ceases to amaze me how two people can look at the same situation and see two entirely different things. We could discuss this until the cows come home, so to speak, but all I ask is for you to tell the WHOLE truth. You are sadly mistaken if you think the reason Camillus is in the shape it is today is because of the strike. As early as January of this year, we stopped seeing steel delivered. Word got out that vendor after vendor was putting us on credit hold or we had to pay up front. MUCH of this happened even before negotiations even started. So, please, don't lead the fine people here at BF to believe half-truths.

Camillus is no big business, and the owners are not getting rich. The company is broke and whether it sells or not the owners will get nothing.
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You are right. The company is broke. And the owners will get nothing from Camillus in the future. HOWEVER, let's tell the whole truth here. What about the bank account that was set up in such a way that it was protected from being called or considered an asset? I, too, may have been sceptical about that, had it not been brought to attention by someone who has absolutely no interest in the Camillus goings-on one way or the other. What about when we had the company "Inventory Reduction Sale"? When Mr. Kaufman locked himself in his office counting money - how much of that was reported as sales and for that matter, sales tax reported? Or what about Mr. Kaufman making himself Sr. Vice President of the company with no knowledge whatsoever of how to run/operate a business and giving himself a six-figure salary based solely on a "because I can" type theory. Or what about the "extra" payment Mr. Donavan was receiving above and beyond his salary each month?

Before the strike, there was a plan for a new owner to grow the company, increase marketing and distribution, and focus on becoming an EXPORTER of US MADE goods....made in America by Americans. Great progress was being made in that respect.
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Again, I ask nothing more than to tell the WHOLE truth. Just how realistic of a plan was it when the potential buyer was only offering $500.000 for the company? I'd say it wasn't much of a plan.

The people still there (salaried) are very dedicated and are working hard to keep the doors open, but the owners have for all practical purposes abandoned the business.
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I'm sure that the salaried people are working to at leat prolong the inevitable. But you have to admit the way they are moving on to new jobs also that it is very clear what the outcome will be. The owners (once again, namely Mr. Kaufman) had given up on Camillus a LONG time ago. Looking back, when he went around telling everybody the company couldn't afford to have a Christmas luncheon, it is very clear that he had no intentions on any long term plans. In short, he wanted to siphon every dollar he could out of Camillus so he wouldn't lose everything like he did at Schrade.

The silly thing was that it didn't matter what was agreed in the new contract, because the new ownership would have been a different corporation and would have to renegotiate anyway.
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If that was, indeed, the case. Why did the company refuse to budge on ANY issue. If it didn't matter, why not negotiate and come up with a contract and keep us working? And then let the new owners deal with wages, etc.

The present plan to go to all imports is BECAUSE of the strike and the union's stance......Unions are changing throughout the country, and actually work with companies to keep business here.
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That is so NOT true. The plan all along was to go to imports. Again, Mr. Kaufman made that clear without actually stating it directly. Mr. Furgal, in or out as president (who knows), depending on the day, is known for holding grudges and this is no exception. THE main reason why he has refused to help us to get benefits to help us move on with our lives and let Camillus do whatever Camillus wants to do.

And I can't even believe you made the statement about the union not working with the company. Should I dig up your quote where you said just the opposite?
 
The owners (once again, namely Mr. Kaufman)...In short, he wanted to siphon every dollar he could out of Camillus so he wouldn't lose everything like he did at Schrade.


Kaufman lost money when Schrade closed? Because of unpaid for inventory sent to Schrade (Sears contracts)? Personal investment? Can you explain please? I was not aware that Kaufman or Furgal had and ownership in ISC.

Codger
 
Gil Kaufman and Gail (Kaufman)Furgal were minority owners at schrade. When Schrade filed bankruptcy, they lost everything they had interest in at Schrade. Same family owns (owned) Schrade and Camillus. Interest in ownership varies with company and individual. Hope that clears it up somewhat.
 
Their inheritence from Albert I suppose. I has Ass u me'd his wife inherited all his shares. And he gave the children and grandchildren all the Camillus shares. Guess it was a wider split. I've never seen a listing of the stock holders of both, except the early days.

Codger
 
Guess I'd better buy that Becker Brute. Been eyeing it for a while.

I've also always thought about buying a Marine Combat Knife. Guess that's on the hit list too.

Sad to see.
 
If I remember correctly, back when ISC was experiencing difficulties, the family hired an outside "rainmaker" to turn both companies around. When ISC tanked, the miracle worker was let go from both companies. Camillus was not in the best of health back in 2004.

Yes, there are several widely divergent views of what has transpired there, as Knifeintheheart and Knifeworker have illustrated for us. Generally, I'd say that from my own perspective, both are right to some extent. I've spent over two years now poring over everything I can find on Imperial Schrade's operations and demise, and I am reminded of a test of well water I did on my farm back in the seventies. The water had an off odor, and my family was not in the best of health. The test came back from the State with coliform bacteria count : TNC. Too numerous to count.

As with many failures of personal relationships, most business failures are a combination of factors. Sometimes too numerous to count.

Codger
 
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