I found this knife all rusted in the dirt on an old farm, I got it cleaned up and was trying to figure out what it is and if it's worth trying to restore. It only has a few markings, one side is marked 411 and the scratches you can see is from my rubbing a file on the metal to see if I could mark it to see if it's tempered. The other side is marked EDGEBRAND Olingen Germany. Here are a few pictures.
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Unknown knife I am trying to identify
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The Zieg
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Edge Brand model 411 throwing knife. Had a wrap on handle at one point but now gone. Restoring would be easy: Naval jelly or some other rust remover, rewrap the grip, and start learning to throw. Have fun!
Zieg
Edge Brand is not the maker, its just a brand name that was used by Gutmann importers. Gutmann brought in many German made knives under various names from the 1950s into the 1970s.
It would have looked like this, probably with a strip of leather wrapped around the handle -
As to who made it, who knows. Linder did make similar throwing knives....so maybe, maybe not.........
It would have looked like this, probably with a strip of leather wrapped around the handle -
As to who made it, who knows. Linder did make similar throwing knives....so maybe, maybe not.........
I was thinking of putting some wood panels on it, sharpening it up, and just using it as camping knife. Do you know if the steel used by these was decent or is it not worth putting that much effort into it?Edge Brand is not the maker, its just a brand name that was used by Gutmann importers. Gutmann brought in many German made knives under various names from the 1950s into the 1970s.
It would have looked like this, probably with a strip of leather wrapped around the handle -
As to who made it, who knows. Linder did make similar throwing knives....so maybe, maybe not.........
I would have thought being a throwing knife if would be a harder steel since it's thrown into things.
The harder the steel is the more prone to breakage it would be under stress. And a throwing knife is subjected to a lot of stress. Between slamming into a target (especially wood), bouncing off the target and hitting the ground, or missing the target altogether, there is a lot of potential for damage.
Also, a good heat-treat costs money, and for a knife that isn't really meant for cutting a good heat-treat isn't necessary.
Harder means more brittle, and more likely to break. 1070 is a good steel for impact tools like axes. Its pretty tough and quite strong when tempered properly.
This might be a dumb question, Are you saying I should temper it? I'm still pretty new to knives and I've been looking around and saw that I could do that with a propane burner and kitchen oven, but I didn't think I would need to do that with metal that is already a knife.
Centermass
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If you intend to use it as a cutting instrument, and expect any sharpened edge to last, yes. Frankly, this sounds like a lot of work that I personally wouldn’t undertake to make a throwing knife into a user for cutting.
jeepin
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Its a commercial production knife made by a reputable manufacturer in Solingen. Why would you think it doesn't already have a proper temper?
I think we need to distinguish between hardening and tempering here. Hardening typically is done by quenching (rapidly cooling) in air, oil or water from a very high temperature.
This leaves the steel at a higher hardness than is practical, i.e. the blade is very hard but also brittle.
Tempering is done by reheating the blade to a much lower temperature than before and keeping it at that temperature for a specific time...there are protocols the steel maker will tell you. This reduces the hardness but increases the toughness of the steel. Voila! A usable blade.
I take it the OP was talking about hardening the blade.
This leaves the steel at a higher hardness than is practical, i.e. the blade is very hard but also brittle.
Tempering is done by reheating the blade to a much lower temperature than before and keeping it at that temperature for a specific time...there are protocols the steel maker will tell you. This reduces the hardness but increases the toughness of the steel. Voila! A usable blade.
I take it the OP was talking about hardening the blade.
Because I was able to scratch a mark into the knife with a file.
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That is to be expected with a low hardness.
Its a 60 year old knife made of 1070 steel. Its tempered like most every other similar knife imported from Germany at that time period. 50-55 Rc or so is about what you'd expect.
If you have no experience with knives or steel you aren't going to be able to properly re- temper that knife with a propane torch and your kitchen stove.
If you want a decent knife that will cut stuff and hold a halfway decent edge for a while, go buy a modern knife. It will be a lot less hassle.....
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I used to have a hand full of those and some that were stamped differently but the same. They are low- spring tempered and not suitable for knives. It wouldn't even be worth the time it would take to sharpen one much less re heat treat it. I doubt it's 1075. I'd guess 1050 or possibly lower carbon. Clean it up and use it for throwing.