Untraditional axe making ?? Good or bad ?

Holy smoke! I really appreciate all of the feedback, information and opinions. I have to say, I was married to the idea of D2 but you all have got me thinking. I have purchased the steel already, so I may just go ahead with it. If it’s a failure, I will have learned something. It won’t be the first time! I was basing my judgement on dies I have made in the past. D2 held up remarkably well.
I will post new images when I get my model (design) refined further. Just modeling this axe in our software is a challenge for me. Axes are way harder to define than I imagined. I am also working on a small Connie / racing style.
 
One more question. Does anyone know the Rockwell hardness of the edge of a good, old American axe? While I have a great machine shop at my disposal, we do not have a Rockwell hardness tester.
 
I don't know how deep into the metalurgy you go, but here is an interesting paper on D2 - if you're into such things (an excerpt below)

1.7
D2 tool steel used for cutting purposes operates under conditions of impact, where resistance to mechanical damage is desired.

Due to high carbon and high chromium content, the Wear resistance of D2 tool steel is approximately eight times that of plain carbon steels (25).
The chemical composition of D2 steel is usually: C-1.5%, Mn-0.30%, Si-0.25%, Cr-12%, V-0.60%, Mo-0.80%.
Kligler (26) has shown that the mechanical properties of D2 steel are anisotropic and depend on orientation with respect to the rolling direction.
Both strength and ductility, as measured by tension, compression and bend tests were found to be maximum in the direction parallel to the rolling direction and minimum in the direction transverse to the rolling direction.
This directionality of mechanical properties can be attributed to the production of elongated carbide stringers in the direction of rolling.
The dimensional changes resulting from hardening of high-carbon high-chromium steels are exceptionally small.
Previous research (27-29) showed that an 11.00% chromium steel of this type expanded only 0.1 % of the annealed volume after hardening in air.
Although the majority of applications of D2 tool steel involve cold work, it is also widely used for hot trimming of forgings.
Typical applications include blanking dies, slitting cutters, shear blades, forming dies, knurls, gages (plug and thread), punches, trimming dies, etc.

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/13366/1/MQ45596.pdf
(for the whole paper)

Please share results if you do work it for hard use, and your HT... it sounds like 3 tempers gives a worthwhile result increasing toughness
 
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If I were to do what you are about to do, I would do the following to your existing design: high center; larger, hardened poll; change the bevels design; keep the lugs, but point the bottom of them instead of rounding them off; pump the head weight up to 2.5 lbs; and hang it on a 26"-28", straight, slim taper, second growth, vertical grain, hickory haft.
If I could only have one axe, the above would be the one. I would have it with me at all times. I try not to find myself anywhere that I can not carry a axe and a knife.
I wish I was not so damn old now, I always wanted to built my own designed axe.
Good luck, and let us follow along with you on this forum.
 
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Old Axeman said:
...I also like the Southern Kentucky Pattern Bevels...
Click to expand...
I think this is the pattern you are referring to:

BookReaderImages.php

https://archive.org/stream/AmericanAxeAndToolCatalog/American Axe and Tool Catalog#page/n69
 
OP is in an enviable position! I think D2 will be okay if the edge isn't pushed too lean. I'd be looking for convexed 30° at that weight, do the double temper aiming for 55.
 
Yes, thanks again Steve. You are truly amazing ! The Southern Kentucky pattern is close to what would be my ideal Boys axe that I described above, but not quite there. I would like the bit a little deeper, like a Jersey.
 
What I mean by deeper bit is more like a Jersey, with the heel of the bit below the bottom of the lugs. Deeper can also mean like 42's example. I dont like long narrow single bit axe heads. If I could draw on Steve's illustration, I would make the heel look like the photo of the Jersey that Steve also put up. Sorry about the confusion, because of my lack of computer skills I only have words, not pictures.
 
Kerry W said:
I was basing my judgement on dies I have made in the past. D2 held up remarkably well.
Click to expand...

Do those dies have cutting edges less than 40 degrees inclusive? Or are they more like almost 90 degree edges? Do they have a large mass of steel lending support behind them? Do they move at speeds upwards of 70 mph? How often do they hit a rock, and what happens when they do? Are they in some big machine that keeps them moving rigidly 90 degrees to the work surface? Or do they ever get halfway through a knot, twist, and pop out again putting pure sideways torsion on the edge at high speed?

I predict you'll take your D2 axe out and test chop some wood without issue. Maybe you'll subconsciously take it easy & only chop clear sections as well. You'll gain some confidence and use it some more, and eventually you'll think to yourself, "Those naysayers didn't give this steel enough credit. It works fine." Because that's exactly what I thought about the big chopping knife I made out of ATS-34 (which could be grouped in the same class as D2 toughness-wise.) I used it pretty hard for over a year, and it worked fine. Right up until the day it broke in half.
 
Old Axeman said:
What I mean by deeper bit is more like a Jersey, with the heel of the bit below the bottom of the lugs. Deeper can also mean like 42's example. I dont like long narrow single bit axe heads. If I could draw on Steve's illustration, I would make the heel look like the photo of the Jersey that Steve also put up. Sorry about the confusion, because of my lack of computer skills I only have words, not pictures.
Click to expand...

Gotcha'. I'd call that "broader". I, too, prefer a broader bit over narrow ones under most circumstances. :)
 
phantomknives said:
that a heavily ground hardware store axe?
Click to expand...

Sort of. It's an Imacasa axe head Joe Flowers brought back from El Salvador for me once, years ago. I'm pretty sure this one was a second/cast-off as the bit was crooked relative to the eye and that's what prompted the heavy regrinding. I straightened it out, thinned the overall geometry, and added the high centerline (it was flat-cheeked before.) Has quite a deep bit to it for an overall American-esque head.
 
Kerry W said:
One more question. Does anyone know the Rockwell hardness of the edge of a good, old American axe?
Click to expand...

Anything above 53 is very good. I think 53-56 is ideal. If you never work in freezing conditions and don't cut super hard wood than 57-58 is exceptional. If you have to cut hemlock knots or other hard knots then you're better to stay at 55 or lower. Hemlock knots are better just avoided entirely.
 
dirc said:
I don't know how deep into the metalurgy you go, but here is an interesting paper on D2 - if you're into such things (an excerpt below)

1.7
D2 tool steel used for cutting purposes operates under conditions of impact, where resistance to mechanical damage is desired.

Due to high carbon and high chromium content, the Wear resistance of D2 tool steel is approximately eight times that of plain carbon steels (25).
The chemical composition of D2 steel is usually: C-1.5%, Mn-0.30%, Si-0.25%, Cr-12%, V-0.60%, Mo-0.80%.
Kligler (26) has shown that the mechanical properties of D2 steel are anisotropic and depend on orientation with respect to the rolling direction.
Both strength and ductility, as measured by tension, compression and bend tests were found to be maximum in the direction parallel to the rolling direction and minimum in the direction transverse to the rolling direction.
This directionality of mechanical properties can be attributed to the production of elongated carbide stringers in the direction of rolling.
The dimensional changes resulting from hardening of high-carbon high-chromium steels are exceptionally small.
Previous research (27-29) showed that an 11.00% chromium steel of this type expanded only 0.1 % of the annealed volume after hardening in air.
Although the majority of applications of D2 tool steel involve cold work, it is also widely used for hot trimming of forgings.
Typical applications include blanking dies, slitting cutters, shear blades, forming dies, knurls, gages (plug and thread), punches, trimming dies, etc.

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/13366/1/MQ45596.pdf
(for the whole paper)

Please share results if you do work it for hard use, and your HT... it sounds like 3 tempers gives a worthwhile result increasing toughness
Click to expand...

That is very interesting, I appreciate you posting it. D2 still seems like a good choice to me. I will be happy to share my progress and continually welcome feedback. I worked on the model some today reworking the geometry to try to get the center of gravity inside the eye. I got it there, but it’s ugly. A bit more work and I will get it.
 
the possum said:
Do those dies have cutting edges less than 40 degrees inclusive? Or are they more like almost 90 degree edges? Do they have a large mass of steel lending support behind them? Do they move at speeds upwards of 70 mph? How often do they hit a rock, and what happens when they do? Are they in some big machine that keeps them moving rigidly 90 degrees to the work surface? Or do they ever get halfway through a knot, twist, and pop out again putting pure sideways torsion on the edge at high speed?

I predict you'll take your D2 axe out and test chop some wood without issue. Maybe you'll subconsciously take it easy & only chop clear sections as well. You'll gain some confidence and use it some more, and eventually you'll think to yourself, "Those naysayers didn't give this steel enough credit. It works fine." Because that's exactly what I thought about the big chopping knife I made out of ATS-34 (which could be grouped in the same class as D2 toughness-wise.) I used it pretty hard for over a year, and it worked fine. Right up until the day it broke in half.
Click to expand...

All very good points and you are correct on most all counts. Most likely when I get this one finished up it will lead a charmed life. I am not hard on axes anyway. If I make this axe and it fails I will have learned something and make another. Most likely out of a different steel.
 
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