Update Canal St Cutlery

Got mine today, and it is beautiful.

Great job where the shield is on the sambar stag. The craftsman who made this didn't just mindlessly slap it on, but worked the stag around it, as if it were all so perfectly planned in advance. A little thing, but so much of the rare stag that is used is just wasted by junky workmanship. Blade opens crisply and the swingguard is tight with the blade open. Nice how they do the old timey thing and high polish the mark side of the blade. Fit and finish flawless throughout. On a par with many, many custom handmade knives I have seen. Not all... but many. I received number 21, and as Cumberland states in the advestising, #001 is held by CSC. I am among a lucky two dozen to own this.

Stick it on a shelf and hope it someday appreciates? Hide it in a safe? Worry and fret? Hell no, this will be proudly carried and used, once in a while. Not every day. Still need a classy sheath for it. Someday someone else will own this, who knows, after my demise it could end up on ebay. What will future owners of this knife think of it, and the person who liked it enough to carry and use the thing?

Also... Cumberland treated me well, shipped the thing quickly. Thanks for the link, Codger.

Phil
ps.. I was going to show this in the tradional forums, but last time I was there people were singing the praises of Rough Riders made in China. They don't deserve to see it.
CSChalfopen.jpg
 
awesome piece, Phil...

I was eyeing that trapper...

Glenn
 
Very nice Phil.

I do think that you should go ahead and show it in the traditional forums, surely some will appreciate it.

Luis
 
I have said this before and I will say it again the judgment of the knife a man carries is as personal as anything else he might reach into his jeans front pocket and grab. I have voiced my opinion on these knives. Some will agree some won't. I wish I knew more about steel and the production of these. I am prejudiced towards them however, I have attempted to give my honest opinion regarding them. I certainly offer the same respect of opinion to anyone that they would give me. In fact I give that respect irregardless.

I have at least until this point only been an observer in the CSC endeaver. I may change that but even if I do please be aware that the only thing in my life that has even a small modicum of importance to me is my name credibility and honor. Keeping this in mind please remember what I have always said a knife is only a knife and there has never been one made that would be important enough or worth enough for me not to give an honest opinion about. All I suggest regarding these tools is to judge for your self. As I have said before I do not believe that CSC is at the point where they can or do produce there blade blanks. I really do not know. I do believe that what they make is 100 percent american. I consider these knives to be as fine as any factory made knife being made anywhere in the world. I feel that they they rate as fine as a great many custom made knives. I would also not hesitate to compare there quality to any factory made american knives ever made. Again it is only my opinion.

Compared to a Taylor Chinese or many other production made knife they are expensive and that is to be considered. A lot has to do with what a person needs or wants. However I will tell you this all the CSC knives that I have handled make you feel like you stepped back in time. No offense but the examples I have seen look as pretty and work as smooth as a prom queens thighs perhapes that is a bit to graphic to explain a knife, but then again you are the one reaching into that front pocket on those jeans your wearing. LT
 
And while I appreciate the thanks Phil, it was our own Schrademeister, LT who brought our attention back around to CSC. I'm just nosey enough for info that I had to find the knives I saw in LT's article. I am glad that you ordered and received one of those swing guards, and more so that you are satisfied with the quality. I examined those pictures of the assembly areas closely enough to see that Wally and friends hired the crem de la crem of cutlers, not manpower temp assembly workers. The workstations were clean, well organized, and though not air conditioned, well lit. To a manufacturing process engineer, those are signs of a good operation. Once again, I wish them the best and hope to add a Canal Street blade to my collection someday soon.

Codger

(a FIXED blade)
 
This thread seems to be getting rather viseral in the use of body parts Thighs, rumps ect to impress personal points of view. In this vein ( get it ) my only comment is that ( as has been pointed out to me on many occasions ) Opinions are also often likened to a part of the human anatomy in that everyone has one . My personal feelings regarding this, is that everyones opinions should be respected no matter how directly that opinion may related to that part of the anatomy. LT
 
Speaking of cutlery, sharpness and bodyparts...everyone is "Waxing" philosophically (or is that PHIL- osophically) today, eh LT?....... :D :D

The Wolfe (in sheepherders clothing)
 
lt632ret said:
This thread seems to be getting rather viseral in the use of body parts Thighs, rumps ect to impress personal points of view.
Click to expand...

True, but I am extremely disappointed, almost a feeling of insult, that they would use a steel I, and I thought others, saw as designed to be "just barely good enough" for the sake of easier grinding. Maybe for a $20 knife, but not for a $80 knife amidst all this talk of quality and stuff. And no, I don't want to hear again about how 420hc is "pretty good considering..."
 
Wish I knew more if I find out I will pass it on. If they are not blanking there own blades it might be part of it perhapes there is more to it. I do know, that I feel it is a well made knife. When I put out my book several people complained about it not being in color of or being to expensive. I did the photos in my book and they were originally in color the publisher told me they were doing it in black and white from the color photos ( I wish I had known ), and that the price was 49.95. Some people told me the book was to much for the average guy and that it should be in color. So I put out a CD which showed many of the same knives but was done as a museum tour and not as a historical reference or price guide for 9.99 so that it was within most peoples price range. The result is that people still complained. The only reason I ever wrote my book was so that dealers would stop ripping the average buyers off since there had been no price reference written on the subject for 20 years. If it was my choice these knives ( Canal st) would be in carbon steel and would function automaticly ( these are the ones I love ). However the point I am making is that it that everything should be better and there are a lot of reasons why they are what they are. I think ( do not know ) that with Canal you might have a chance of getting what you want down the line. I know that with Taylor ( and I am not pointing him out specificly but rather what he represents ) you will get initially whatever it takes to get your business and then when they own the field you will get what they want to give. I am sure there are better steels ( depending what you want ). However we, AMERICA, has through it's own stupidity have made ourselves dependent on what is produced by the foreign scum ( whoops ) firms. Until we once again produce the materials that we prefer, perhapes we should recognise that we are the underdog getting up from the canvas and starting over. Frankly what can be produced in this country from strickly american parts and is available and is then put together with the impecable care of real american craftsmanship is limited. if we wish to support our future independence I feel we ahould use American quality products that are crafted with quality . You can either use foreign parts and continue to be part of the problem or start from scratch depend on american craftsmanship and american balls, until you get up off the floor and start fighting back. Americans are snobs they do not like to be second best. The fact is Canal is about 10 people throwing a right hand into the belly of a company that uses communist ( prison ) labor consists of millions of people all the money and clout in the world and may someday have your children using Chinese as there first language. I have heard D-2 steel is grainey ( whatever the hell that means ) I have looked at knives made out of it and to me they are georgeous. Collectors today want super hard steels they are useless if they ever get dull virtually unsharpenable . Who knows, it is personal opinion. What I want is quality american craftsmanship and my neighbors coming home feeling pride in a product that is the finest in the world and they helped produce. To sit back as an academic and judge products is a luxury we can no longer enjoy it is time to stand up pick up those pieces put them together with the american quality (that when we want it to be is unmatched )and stick that knife right to the heart of the matter. AHH SOO. LT
 
LT, Pardon the digression, but can you provide some info or a link on the book / CD you mentioned? I realize you weren't trying to plug it, but you picqued my interest, and I'm guessng others' also.

Carl, The use of 420HC may be questionable, but it is not without precenent: The Schatt & Morgan annual series have used that or something like it since the series began in 1991, except for 1999 & 2000 when they used ATS 34.

Regards,
Dave
 
Paladinpress.com The AKAswitchbladenewsletter. ( In Phoenix) Should provide some info. The Collectors guide to switchblade knives If you wish my email is lt632ret@frontiernet.net Some book outfit ( nothing to do with me ) usually sells them on ebay. I do not wish to violate any forum policys. However since I do not care enough to learn them I remain ignorant of what I can post regarding information. Thankyou LT
 
420HC.....C. 0.42
Mn. 0.42
P. .019
S. .002
Si. .0.49
Cr. 12.69
Rc.58

Buck has been using it for several years. There are about ten different steels going under the name "420". 420HC might get a bad reputation because so many people have bad experience with 420J2 from companies who import that junk from the near and far East. There is no vanadium in it, so it depends on the heat treat for hardness, not additives. John Collier and Brian and David Yellowhorse have no problem with using 420HC Bucks for their custom work. That is a lot of work to put into embellishing a knife with poor metal, if indeed that is what 420HC is.

Codger
 
If Queen is doing the blanks, that is the "Stains Less" they use on MOST Schatt and Morgans, and sell to others (Wendell Carson's Fightin Bulls) as well.
Probably the same philosophy that was discussed here awhile back about stainless being the management's choice (at Schrade...and Case) for "Collectable" knives and all the embellishment (serialized, premium bone and stag, milled liners, filework) type thing.

Who knows, maybe we'll see some in D-2 in the future??

JMO, of course....and worth every cent it cost here. :)

Bill
 
Codger64:

420hc is definitely not just maligned due to the name (though that probably didn't help:)). Buck's predecessor base steel was called 425m, so "420hc" was not really a shocker. I could cut and paste some quotes directly from Buck employees about how 420HC came about, but it might seem rude to quote a specific person for negative purposes.

420hc is the second (I think) step in finding "almost as good" steel that is cheaper to make knives out of. They started with 440c, then to 425m (not so great, but OK), then on to 420hc. 420hc is not "bad" but it isn't exactly good either. Buck does indeed harden to 58, though others may not. The conclusion was 420hc was almost as good as 425m if done just right, but a lot cheaper to make knives out of. 425m was never that great to begin with.

So the most descriptive explanation of 420hc would be something like "Pretty good considering it is two steps down in the cheapness crusade from a standard steel and doesn't have much Carbon." It's one of those things designed to be just barely good enough to call decent so it can be cheap. I hate stuff like that, though its doesn't bother me on the low-priced knives it was designed for ($20-30 Buck).

It's not what I expected from a company I thought was going to aim for quality levels they couldn't do while working under other pressures.


Lt:

Hardness does not make blades harder to sharpen, but that's another discussion all by itself.
 
Thanks for the link and post. Ordered a trapper from Cumberland. Looking
forward to receiving it! Will let you know when it arrives. ;)
 
My point was never to doubt your opinion or understanding of the material. I have not responded in specs. I simply state that beauty and desirabliity is in the eye of the beholder or in this case purchaser. The reference I made to hardness is from discussions and experience. I have always found carbon steel sharpens faster and easier and dulls quicker. Knives I display I do not use so really there function has always been a moot point. In any event I seem to have been made the advocate of this company. Personally I like the product and the ethic it expounds . If ( said respectfully ) you feel it is not to your taste I suggest you either not buy it or as you have done continue to let your opinion be known. I am curious and it is none of my business but have you handled one of these personally? Pressures are an interesting point. Perhapes you are correct and this handful of people who have been attempting to pull this miracle off for the last 9 months should be further ahead in there project and variations in steel . After all, look how much a Fledgling operation like little old Taylor ( fried rice incorporated ) has done to promote there product in the same amount of time. I am not an engineer my mechanical acumen level is beyond reproach as being of the lowest sentinent level . ( I changed a toilet valve today and feel I deserve a medal ) a one hour job done in one long day what a guy I am ).

I am instead a dinosaur a throwback whiskey, stud poker, honor , a well turned ankle, history , old John Wayne movies. oh yes and a well made knife. If the knife is made from obsidian and 400 years old really does not matter to me, The history of a knifes creation is often more important than the blood it spilt in its history of use.

I am going on 60 years old and I do agree HARDNESS is an entirely different discussion. LT
 
Had to post so I could show off my newest addition to my family. Have to keep up with the toothpick's...er Joneses :D

Here is the muskrat offering from CSC. Not my favorite pattern, but a nice piece none-the-less. I had to have one of these examples of handmade quality.

Sorry for the pic quality, I was in a hurry.

The price was well worth the product. I don't know if this will get any edc, for now I'm just going to sit and look at it. :cool:

Fit and finish are impeccable...

Misc080.jpg


Misc086.jpg


Glenn
 
Beautiful, Glenn. You made a great choice. You may wanna show it off in the traditional forum, the guys there love seeing things like this (might help our friends who are making these things as well).

I wish Schrade had not gone under, but I think these offerings-- and the very creation of Canal Street-- kinda offsets the pain of seeing our favorite brand now in enemy hands.

Phil
 
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