Update on my Startup

[caseyfulp]

Hey all,

Well, after my last thread, and a recent visit to a local knife maker... I have decided to change directions a bit and for the most part I think I am following everyone's advice. I ditched the idea of the 1x42 or 2x42 to start and will be going with a build from Oregon Blade Maker. With that said, I am a very visual person. I had pages and pages of notes, prices, links, etc. and finally decided that I'd had enough of that. I built a spreadsheet on Google Sheets. It has an overview (start) page that shows me what my total costs will be with machinery, materials, tools, and safety gear. That overview is calculated by separate sheets for Machinery, Materials, Tools, and Safety. On the individual sheets I have built a system where I can input items with a link, quantity, price, and totals. It is by no means 100% complete... which is why I am here asking for advice.

You can view the sheet here: Knife Making Startup

My goal here is simply to visualize what it is going to take to get this thing up and running so that when the time comes, I can have everything in the shop and ready to go. I also want your input on everything from motors and VFDs to handle materials to have around for the first few knives. I won't be going out tomorrow to purchase all of this, so don't fret. I will be visiting the local knife maker more, hopefully, and focusing on getting a better perspective of what it takes before I pull the trigger.

Thanks

 

[Stromberg Knives]

Very professional looking!

My only concern is that your ratio on machinery vs safety equipment looks a bit off. I would definitely put more of the investment in the PPE department. At least get a nice respirator, your body will thank you.

 

[caseyfulp]

Very professional looking!

My only concern is that your ratio on machinery vs safety equipment looks a bit off. I would definitely put more of the investment in the PPE department. At least get a nice respirator, your body will thank you.

Yeah, I figured that was coming. To be honest, I just threw something in there for now. I want a full face shield, but I have yet to put the time into figuring out what respirator will fit under which... or if to go with the full face respirator.

 

[12345678910]

Before you spend four thousand dollars, spend some time and some effort to learn something.


Go to the stickies at the top of the page and read The Count's standard reply


Then make one by hand with files.

Start by posting a sketch here, we will offer suggestions.


I won't say the ones with good sketches make good knives, but the ones with good knives make good sketches.

 

[caseyfulp]

Before you spend four thousand dollars, spend some time and some effort to learn something.


Go to the stickies at the top of the page and read The Count's standard reply


Then make one by hand with files.

Start by posting a sketch here, we will offer suggestions.


I won't say the ones with good sketches make good knives, but the ones with good knives make good sketches.

Apparently you're reading the sheet wrong... and my family would laugh at the second part of the first sentence. I've spent the past 3 weeks researching as much as I can. I am getting past the idea phase and into the hands on phase. I already gathered what I need for the hand file jig, but I work weekends so there hasn't been time. Like I said in the original post, I won't be pulling the trigger tomorrow or anything. I was just looking for advice as to the initial startup when it happens. I will work diligently to spend time and effort to learn something... more.

 

[12345678910]

Apparently you're reading the sheet wrong... and my family would laugh at the second part of the first sentence. I've spent the past 3 weeks researching as much as I can. I am getting past the idea phase and into the hands on phase. I already gathered what I need for the hand file jig, but I work weekends so there hasn't been time. Like I said in the original post, I won't be pulling the trigger tomorrow or anything. I was just looking for advice as to the initial startup when it happens. I will work diligently to spend time and effort to learn something... more.

good for you, let's see your sketch

 

[caseyfulp]

 

[caseyfulp]

It's not showing up for me, but I right clicked and hit open in new tab and it worked. Let me know if it's not working for you.

 

[Matt Rochester]

Not showing up for me. Load it to a host site like photobucket. Then copy the img link and paste it.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

While I applaud your efforts to be clerical in the planning, there are some things that can't be viewed on a spread sheet made by a novice with three weeks study. It is sort of like a person with no medical knowledge writing a plan to do surgery after spending tree weeks looking online. You don't know what you don't know.


You don't seem to have any budget for consumables - belts, sandpaper, steel, wood, etc. This is a good part of any shop startup. Miscellaneous tools like files, file guides, hammers, clamps, pliers, drill bits, specialty bits and milling tools, etc.

 

[KnuckleDownKnives]

Don't forget to think about shipping costs for the items not being purchased locally. You're going to add a few more hundred dollars to that list. Nicely done though. It's taken me a year and a half so far and I'm getting close to have the necessities to make some tasks easier for me, probably have another 2k- 3k to go till my initial phase is done till I can move on the the second phase to get me fully capable with kiln, RC tester, mini mill, surface grinder, disk grinder....... Another 10K or so. I've go a little saving jar right now tying to get 1K saved just so I can spend it all on consumables. Belts, paper and such.

 

[noseoil]

What Stacy said about "consumables" is important! Best to just jump in with your slow approach & see how things go. My first blade was made with a Harbor Freight 1x30 grinder & lousy belts (ah, the learning curve), but it let me get the feel for things. Do a first blade with what you have gathered already & start the learning that way. I think that's a sound way to go. There's plenty of time to do the planning & buying.

My philosophy about this stuff is that the longer you spend learning & planning, the better the money is spent & the more time you have to accumulate savings for purchases. The more experience you gain in the beginning, the better your chances for good buying of stuff later is going to happen. I say just do it & see how that first blade comes out!

The sooner it's finished, the sooner you'll say "Oh, I could have changed the.... to make it different and then.... that would have.... so next time I'm going to...."

 

[12345678910]

Yes, photobucket is free and works better



Try taking the photo more straight on to the page, 90 degrees

At an angle it's skewed and affects perspective
Good on you for using graph paper. It really helps

[url]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/NLLGZfBAOIx8vLBwFatkdli_Pm-6nsFSGGhU90vDQKPrVeZmr7X1Xn4d3T_6LopSmSCvgHeD8MIrh6p1optrueAw6jENNA5_tln_=w1680-h909 [/URL]


A full flat is easier to acheive than a saber is.

What's your thickness planned ?

Try making a cardboard or wooden template.
Paint sticks are free. It's too wide for that, but you see the idea.

 

[caseyfulp]

While I applaud your efforts to be clerical in the planning, there are some things that can't be viewed on a spread sheet made by a novice with three weeks study. It is sort of like a person with no medical knowledge writing a plan to do surgery after spending tree weeks looking online. You don't know what you don't know.


You don't seem to have any budget for consumables - belts, sandpaper, steel, wood, etc. This is a good part of any shop startup. Miscellaneous tools like files, file guides, hammers, clamps, pliers, drill bits, specialty bits and milling tools, etc.

On the contrary. There is a separate tab at the bottom for materials and I included most consumables for the basic machinery and tools within that tab, which is then calculated and added to the working total on the overview.

Again, the whole point is to get a basic overview of what it will take financially. You guys are over here telling me to make a knife. I'm mentally preparing myself to make it work in the case that this is something I want to do. I'm 99.9% positive that hand filing a knife will make me want to just go out and blow my load on more tools any way. What's so wrong with trying to get a financially responsible perspective?

 

[caseyfulp]

Yes, photobucket is free and works better



Try taking the photo more straight on to the page, 90 degrees

At an angle it's skewed and affects perspective
Good on you for using graph paper. It really helps

[url]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/NLLGZfBAOIx8vLBwFatkdli_Pm-6nsFSGGhU90vDQKPrVeZmr7X1Xn4d3T_6LopSmSCvgHeD8MIrh6p1optrueAw6jENNA5_tln_=w1680-h909 [/URL]


A full flat is easier to acheive than a saber is.

What's your thickness planned ?

Try making a cardboard or wooden template.
Paint sticks are free. It's too wide for that, but you see the idea.

I was thinking 3/16. I'm big into bushcraft and seem to like the 1/4 scandi in that realm. It would ultimately depend on what is readily available. As far as cardboard, I was planning on grabbing a bunch of the boxes we have in our recycling. I work at a bar, so fresh cardboard daily.

 

[Drew Riley]

I just skimmed over your spreadsheets, but figured I'd add my $.02.

I don't think there's anything wrong with pricing out tools and materials and having an idea of what something is going to cost you, whether a hobby or a business venture. It looks like you covered MOST of the basics, such that if you had them all tomorrow, you could likely take a knife from start to finish.

Is the goal here to "startup" a hobby, or a business? Make sure you have realistic expectations for either.

I don't think I saw any provisions for Heat Treatment. Is that something you are considering doing yourself, or sending out?
I'd also upgrade your drill press. Don't rule out craigslist and other classifieds/auctions. 1/3hp is pretty light, and you'll outgrow an 8" table pretty quick.

I also notice you have a relatively broad array of materials budgets for: different widths and thickness, different handle materials, etc..

If you've never made a knife before, or only one or two, I'd simplify the materials list down to one type of steel, and one type of handle material. Get proficient with that first, and then branch out. It's nice to have options, and to know what they'll cost, but for a start up, I'd re-route some of that money to upgrade tooling where possible, and try not to make too many variables for yourself when it comes to learning how to grind and finish a knife.

Good luck!

 

[caseyfulp]

I just skimmed over your spreadsheets, but figured I'd add my $.02.

I don't think there's anything wrong with pricing out tools and materials and having an idea of what something is going to cost you, whether a hobby or a business venture. It looks like you covered MOST of the basics, such that if you had them all tomorrow, you could likely take a knife from start to finish.

Is the goal here to "startup" a hobby, or a business? Make sure you have realistic expectations for either.

I don't think I saw any provisions for Heat Treatment. Is that something you are considering doing yourself, or sending out?
I'd also upgrade your drill press. Don't rule out craigslist and other classifieds/auctions. 1/3hp is pretty light, and you'll outgrow an 8" table pretty quick.

I also notice you have a relatively broad array of materials budgets for: different widths and thickness, different handle materials, etc..

If you've never made a knife before, or only one or two, I'd simplify the materials list down to one type of steel, and one type of handle material. Get proficient with that first, and then branch out. It's nice to have options, and to know what they'll cost, but for a start up, I'd re-route some of that money to upgrade tooling where possible, and try not to make too many variables for yourself when it comes to learning how to grind and finish a knife.

Good luck!

Great advice. I was originally looking to spend $1000 on a 1x30-2x42 and similar drill press and bandsaw. On another thread, I got blasted with the whole 2x72 or bust. Then I visited the local knifemaker and my stepdad and I decided to look into the 2x72s. Thats what started all of this. I wanted to take the advice from the other thread and make sure that I could even do it financially before I got my hopes up.

As far as the materials and heat treating, the local guy said I could play around in his shop and even use his kiln some until I get to that purchasing point. I had the original idea of getting enough materials to make 2-5 or 5-10 knives, and then the spreadsheet looked so bare. Haha, I threw a few extra things in there. I will simplify that though.

The end game here is a business. While I won't say that I expect to be selling knives in a month... I'd like to be at that in 12 months. Maybe I will have to just focus on one or two designs.

Thanks!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

".... The end game here is a business. While I won't say that I expect to be selling knives in a month... I'd like to be at that in 12 months. Maybe I will have to just focus on one or two designs..."

Big red flag. You haven't made any knife ... ever. You have no tools or experience with them. You plan on being a professional in 12 months. You haven't filled out your profile, so we don't know anything about you. That would be the best place to start. We don't know if you are a college student, a venture capitalist planning his second million, a recently discharged Vet, or a retired race car driver.
So far, I would say that you are putting the cart far ahead of the horse. Make a few dozen knives, then make a business plan when you know what it takes to make knives.

 

[12345678910]

I was thinking 3/16. I'm big into bushcraft and seem to like the 1/4 scandi in that realm. It would ultimately depend on what is readily available. As far as cardboard, I was planning on grabbing a bunch of the boxes we have in our recycling. I work at a bar, so fresh cardboard daily.

Try 1-8"
It's plenty strong. Thin is in.
It's better to go thin, especially by hand.

Read all the links in my Standard Reply

There's a whole lot there for you.

".... The end game here is a business. While I won't say that I expect to be selling knives in a month... I'd like to be at that in 12 months. Maybe I will have to just focus on one or two designs..."Big red flag. You haven't made any knife ... ever.

As I said, making some will be a huge learning experience.
See if you're good at it, or like it.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

I got the grinder and a number of other things that I'm using right now from a guy that invested heavily in knifemaking equipment before actually making a knife.

Didn't work out so well for him, worked out pretty okay for me.