Upgrade from Misen Chef's knife - Help

M

MP998

Joined
Dec 12, 2023
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Hi Everyone,

I've been using the Misen 8 inch chef's knife since they first launched with the kickstarter and it served my well enough. I appreciated the ergonomics, edge retention and just overall feel compared to the J.A Henckels I had been using previously. So much so that I purchased the Misen 2.0 a couple of years later which I never quite took to in the same way.

I want to upgrade from the Misen and was looking for some advice on where I should go from here. I'm tempted by the 8 inch Zwilling Kramer as I see it's on sale now but I'm concerned about the upkeep of Carbon Steel to prevent rusting. I'm sure my wife will grab it one day and forget to dry it in time or even put it in the sink! I'm also not sure if the shape of the knife will work for me but then again you can't know until you try it. I've also been thinking of heading over to Korin in NYC to take a look at their Gyuto selection. I'm comfortable with spending around $300. I've never used a Japanese handle so I think I'd like to stick with western handles for a Gyuto.

I like the idea of Carbon Steel but I'm just not sure if the upkeep is worth it for me. I would say the most important aspects I'm looking for would overall ergonomics and how it feels as well as edge retention as I don't sharpen myself. I'd like to be able to go longer periods without having to get them sharpened.

I use a pinch grip and ultimately I would like to rely on this knife, for the most part for almost everything I can throw at it. Chopping, slicing and dicing vegetables, breaking down poultry, slicing meats etc. I use a combination of rocking but also push and pull.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Check out Ivan Campos, a Brazilian cutliero who makes top quality high carbon chef's knives (among other types). As for care of high carbon steel, we had a Sabatier high carbon French chef's knife that we used and abused for 30+ years; it became dark with patina but that didn't affect how it cut.
 
This forum is not specialized to kitchen knives. Over on "Kitchen Knife Forums" there is a wealth of knowledge there for recommendations.

I am a bit out of practice on kitchen knife options these days, but if you want to work your way up to determine what you like the Tojiro DP Gyuto series in the 210mm length is the gold standard for entry level stainless gyutos. To try a carbon steel option, go with the Misono Swedish Carbon Steel series in whatever shape and length you like. I have tried both of these and I really like the Misono Santoku swedish carbon that I picked up second hand. If left wet for over 30min rust will form, but it is not the end of the world and can be cleaned up easily.

Going higher in price than these two offerings starts a slippery slope of personal preference, material type, and finish upgrades. The Takamura R2 210mm Gyuto with the red handle and R2 stainless steel is a super thin ground knife that will open your eyes to the wonders of thin Japanese kitchen knives. If you want to see what the fuss is about on Japanese Gyutos, the Takamura is a good one to look at. Just watch your cutting technique since the edge is super thin and not as robust as western chef knives. And the steel is much harder, so prone to chipping. I would call that knife and other mid-tier Gyutos to be an intermediate skill knife just due to edge thinness and blade hardness.

The guys at Kitchen Knife Forums can inundate with options, but trying out one of the above 3 will really help you dial in on your preferences and give you a better understanding of what you might want to change for the next knife. There is always a next knife ;)
 
They also make stainless steel Zwilling Kramer collabs, both a basic line and the stainless damascus one. If you're patient you can snag a good deal; I got the 10" damascus one for within your price range on the bay.

That being said, it's an amazing knife IMO but has a pretty unique blade profile that's different from most knives, so without knowing your preferences I don't know if it would be my first recommendation. The Kramers have especially tall blades, and I think the 8" is shaped more for a rocking cut (the 10" is kind of a combination of a flat cleaver in the back with a curved belly in the front). Personally, I really like the tall blade for a few reasons: it has more knuckle clearance, you get extra stability in cuts, the additional height adds weight without extra thickness so it slices with less effort, there's more sharpening life in the blade, and you can scoop up more chopped product at a time to throw into a pot or pan.

What are you looking to improve on vs the knives you've tried? Do you prefer ultra thin Japanese style knives or more of a thick and robust western grind? Would you rather have a curved belly to the blade or a flatter profile?

Edge retention isn't as critical with kitchen knives as pocket knives, so you're less likely to see supersteels here. Most chefs demand a very high level of sharpness from their knives, and basic (but quality) steels lose their razor sharp edge at about the same rate as supersteels. So a steel that's tough enough to grind thin and easy to bring back to that razor sharp level is usually the most desirable. I'd recommend looking into sharpening yourself; it's pretty easy with kitchen knives and a decent sharpener.
 
Z-Kramers are a bit expensive and as mentioned above, an very particular blade profile. Little bit of a risk if you are not fully confident in liking that blade shape. I have wanted the 10" carbon steel for a while, but its out of my price range. There was the Z Kramer Essential series that was the lowest cost with more modest materials, but it may have been discontinued. That would have been a good one to try. Thinner knives feel sharper for longer since they can slip through product with less resistance, but again, require a bit more care in use.
 
They have Kramer in stainless, though they don't perform quite as good IMHO.
There is also stainless clad carbon steel, or you can force a patina.
Korin is a good store. You can also check out Chef Knives to Go - they have an associated forum. They give good bang for the buck with various smith made knives.
 
Given the success you have found with a lighter, harder, narrower cost effective collaboration between American design and an OEM supplier, you might go to a restaurant supply and look at Mercer Culinary Chef knives:


Enthusiast shops like Korin--face to face or online specialize in Artisan knives from Japan that cost at least $100 and expect the user to be familiar with sharpening stones.

The enthusiast shops you are considering are quite a jump from your Misen. Make sure that you are comfortable making such a move.
 
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