UPGRADE IDEA (for a Sharpener I just bought):

[TrumanHW]

I tried out the Lansky Deluxe (have had it for about a week) ... but there are definitely some shortcomings.

For starters, the clamp SUCKS. I could replace the phillips screw with a hex to add more torque, but it's still clamping in 1 spot.

I picked up another unit that I found on Amazon at a pretty good price (IMO) ... it has two clamp points which seems better.

But i was thinking (assuming it's an M6 or M8 allen key or something ... and replacing it with a quick-release + cam:

Obviously I mean adding them on the two clamp arms (replacing the allex screws that they come with)

That looks big, I'll probably have to search to find one small enough to not over-torque it obviously.


Also ... does anyone know what size stones the 'default' (if there is one) this probably uses..? I'm guessing about 6" x either 0.5" or 1" based on availability ..?

FWIW, I struggled to get results with the Lansky that were as good as I got freehand (which ... while it cut paper it wasn't super sharp and wasn't consistent).

If anyone has ideas off the top of their head how a novice might get better results, I'd definitely be interested in pointers. Of course I've watched many YT videos, but I'm still open. And I did strop after, of course, after creating a burr starting with course and got a burr with each diamond "grit" before moving up.

Thanks!

 

[Another Shepherd]

I tried out the Lansky Deluxe (have had it for about a week) ... but there are definitely some shortcomings.

For starters, the clamp SUCKS. I could replace the phillips screw with a hex to add more torque, but it's still clamping in 1 spot.

I picked up another unit that I found on Amazon at a pretty good price (IMO) ... it has two clamp points which seems better.

That's a Toorh, I think. They come in several different models.

Also ... does anyone know what size stones the 'default' (if there is one) this probably uses..? I'm guessing about 6" x either 0.5" or 1" based on availability ..?

The most commonly used stones are 1 by 6 inches.

FWIW, I struggled to get results with the Lansky that were as good as I got freehand (which ... while it cut paper it wasn't super sharp and wasn't consistent).

If anyone has ideas off the top of their head how a novice might get better results, I'd definitely be interested in pointers.

Get a Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust. It's a bargain at $250.

 

[TrumanHW]

Get a Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust. It's a bargain at $250.

Thanks for that info.


The 'Toorh' is inferior ..? What if I picked one up for $140 ..?

Also ... any ideas why I'm struggling with the Lansky?
Or is that not surprising..?

 

[Old Biker]

I tried out the Lansky Deluxe (have had it for about a week) ... but there are definitely some shortcomings.

For starters, the clamp SUCKS. I could replace the phillips screw with a hex to add more torque, but it's still clamping in 1 spot.

I picked up another unit that I found on Amazon at a pretty good price (IMO) ... it has two clamp points which seems better.

But i was thinking (assuming it's an M6 or M8 allen key or something ... and replacing it with a quick-release + cam:

Obviously I mean adding them on the two clamp arms (replacing the allex screws that they come with)

That looks big, I'll probably have to search to find one small enough to not over-torque it obviously.

I think the quick release would be a good idea, Except, I think you will quickly find that they will be in the way of your stone. Better to just stay with the allen screws.

O.B.

 

[TrumanHW]

I think the quick release would be a good idea, Except, I think you will quickly find that they will be in the way of your stone. Better to just stay with the allen screws.

O.B.

GOOD GOOD point...!!

 

[TrumanHW]

Curious ... how are KAI knives sharpened at the factory ..?
Am I wrong to think it didn't even have a bevel ..?
Are there knives that aren't sharpened with a bevel ?

 

[Another Shepherd]

Curious ... how are KAI knives sharpened at the factory ..?

Not that I know much about Japanese kitchen knives, but the Kai web site says, "Choose from the precision of a traditional single-bevel blade when slicing sushi, or a double-bevel blade in both Japanese and Western blade shapes."

Am I wrong to think it didn't even have a bevel ..?
Are there knives that aren't sharpened with a bevel ?

If a knife does not have a bevel, then it does not have an edge.

Most Western knives have a primary bevel and a secondary bevel, where the edge is formed by the secondary bevel, and the primary bevel is the sloping area between the secondary bevel and that part of the blade where the two sides are parallel to each other. Some people reverse the meaning of primary and secondary.

Some knives have only an edge bevel, such as pure scandi grinds, although a scandi may also have a micro bevel.

A chisel grind is beveled only on one side.

Pictures would make this clearer. I don't see any really good ones at the moment, but maybe this will help:

From agrussell.com.

 

[Another Shepherd]

The 'Toorh' is inferior ..? What if I picked one up for $140 ..?

I don't have a Toorh, so I can't say. It looks kind of interesting, though. I do know that the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust is very easy to use, has very solid construction, and that you can get excellent edges on almost any knife except very long or flexible blades.

Also ... any ideas why I'm struggling with the Lansky?

Sorry, I don't have Lansky either. What kinds of stones does it have? What kind of steel are you sharpening?

When you go through the progression of grits, getting a burr is important with first, coarsest grit, and maybe if you are fine-tuning the bevel on the second grit. After that, the goal is to decrease the size of the burr on each successive grit.

 

[TheOne45]

The 'Toorh' is inferior ..? What if I picked one up for $140 ..?

There is a guy on Youtube who has some sharpening videos with different Toohr sharpeners.
As far as I can see from those videos they are working fine.
There was also a thread about those sharpeners on this forum but I can't find it.

 

[K80Shooter]

There was also a thread about those sharpeners on this forum but I can't find it.

Toohr #3 knife sharpener

I am still waiting for mine but looks like there is more info about it than it was a month back: Russian review, you can turn on subtitles and automatic translation to english:

www.bladeforums.com

 

[Bdtry]

Toohr #3 knife sharpener

I am still waiting for mine but looks like there is more info about it than it was a month back: Russian review, you can turn on subtitles and automatic translation to english:

www.bladeforums.com

Yup, I would suggest reading through the thread above. We basically tore the sharpeners down and went completely through them. It really helps to clean it out completely and set it up properly. They can be really good for the price but you need to put in a bit of work. They end up being better than similarly priced and slightly more expensive sharpeners.

The included clamps are really flexible and don't do the best job. You can use Tsprof clamps out of the box, or Hapstone and others with 3dprinted adapter "Hapstone R2 Clamp Adapter for TSProf K03". You will also need longer M5 bolts as the included ones are not long enough.

Here is mine with Hapstone R2 Opti clamps that I was using earlier today.

Thanks for that info.

The 'Toorh' is inferior ..? What if I picked one up for $140 ..?

Also ... any ideas why I'm struggling with the Lansky?
Or is that not surprising..?

It could very well be that you are not quite properly sharpening or finishing. It takes time to learn. You might be dealing with a large burr that you think is sharp but as soon as it breaks off you wind up with a dull blade again. Proper burr removal can take a while to learn.

 

[TheOne45]

It could very well be that you are not quite properly sharpening or finishing. It takes time to learn. You might be dealing with a large burr that you think is sharp but as soon as it breaks off you wind up with a dull blade again. Proper burr removal can take a while to learn.

Exactly.
After sharpening and stropping I allways drag the edge a few times through the edge of my wooden cutting board or I cut some soft wood like pine or spruce (like sharpening pencile).
If after that the knife still cuts paper without hickups I'm good. If not that means there was a burr on the edge and it teared partially or folded when the knife went through the wood. In that case I need to to some more stropping.

Funny thing is sometimes (when there is a burr) this burr is so small I can't see it with my 60x loupe. The blade will cut paper without a problem but actually this small burr is cutting. But after I cut some wood the blade won't cut the paper; it will tear this cheap advertisement paper if I cut it cross fibers …. you know …. this burr is somehow like electricity … I know it's there but I can't see it.

If I may add;
When I look all those sharpening videos on Youtube I always wonder. You know; some guys go through all those stones and some guys strop at the end and after that they cut some paper to show the audience how sharp the edge is.
I wonder in how many cases those edges would still cut paper if the sharpener would drag the edge through some wood before testing it on the paper.

 

[TrumanHW]

Damn.

Some knives have only an edge bevel .... may also have a micro bevel.

Your comment, MICRO BEVEL, gave me a search phrase that led me to the exact info I needed:
My Kai Shun knife has a CONVEX edge ... and I see no way to reliably replicate the factory edge.

The below images aren't related to the Shun knife question, and were just interesting.

The image shows a HOLLOW GROUND edge, which reminded me of a Kamisori.
Kamisori being the Japanese term for Razor.

Kamisoris are fabricated such that you can sharpen the edge by just laying it flat...
In which the "hollow" separates two flat planes that define the intended angle.


The planes are visible in both pictures as the two flat surfaces defining the angle 'glare' in the right image.

 

[TheOne45]

Kamisoris are fabricated such that you can sharpen the edge by just laying it flat...
In which the "hollow" separates two flat planes that define the intended angle.

As far as I know european razors are made the same way except they are not as wide as this japanese razor from your photo.

I think the comment about '' only edge bevel'' was ment for scandi grind... no primary bevel - flat blade with only edge bevel and sometimes micro bevel at the end of the edge bevel.

 

[TrumanHW]

Here is mine with Hapstone R2 Opti clamps that I was using earlier today.

Can you upload pictures of just the Hapstone R2 Opti clamps ..?

Especially if you're suggesting that I replace the clamps that come with that rig.

(BTW, what's the name of this setup..? And what is a reasonable price for the unit..?)

It could very well be that you are not quite properly sharpening or finishing. It takes time to learn.

Oh, obviously. That's absolutely why I'm not getting good results, bc clearly others get great results with the Lansky.

It's not that I felt the Lansky can't yield good results for me; a better phrasing would've been to say that perhaps a better unit would mitigate deficiencies in my ability.

The clamping issue isn't causing poor results.

Irrespective my lack of proficiency, a rig that clamps well is strongly preferred.

Proper burr removal can take a while to learn.

Good info. I'll keep that in mind and review with the magnifying glass I have. Thx

 

[Mr.Wizard]

My Kai Shun knife has a CONVEX edge ... and I see no way to reliably replicate the factory edge.

You can use a series of of bevels to approximate the curvature, doing the heavy lifting with stones, then use sandpaper over a compliant medium like leather to blend them all together. It's a bit of work but it does work. A slack belt grinder would no doubt be faster.

 

[TrumanHW]

I don't have a Toorh, so I can't say. It looks kind of interesting, though. I do know that the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust is very easy to use, has very solid construction, and that you can get excellent edges on almost any knife except very long or flexible blades.

Sorry, I don't have Lansky either. What kinds of stones does it have? What kind of steel are you sharpening?

When you go through the progression of grits, getting a burr is important with first, coarsest grit, and maybe if you are fine-tuning the bevel on the second grit. After that, the goal is to decrease the size of the burr on each successive grit.

Sorry about not replying yesterday ... had work early then had to drive into New Orleans to visit family.

It has "Diamond Stones" ... they are very rough. Even the fine one is kinda rough ... but I hear they refine over time.

I'd like to get some finer stones at some point ... bc after I profile my knives I don't think I'd need anything [but] something to touch it up and a strop.

Shapton Pro (Kuromaku) -- in 1,000 'grit' ...

www.amazon.com/dp/B01MCWD2QD


Any reason to actually use strops that fit into the fixed angle sharpener..? Do they require the same precise angle control as stones?


Lastly, it seems like I probably shouldn't mess with the Kai Shun knife I have as it has that convex edge :'( ...

 

[TrumanHW]

You can use a series of of bevels to approximate the curvature, doing the heavy lifting with stones, then use sandpaper over a compliant medium like leather to blend them all together. It's a bit of work but it does work. A slack belt grinder would no doubt be faster.

I may be wrong but ... It seems the last angle on a convex edge (the tangent closest to the cutting surface) could be 30-degrees or even higher ... ?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I may be wrong but ... It seems the last angle on a convex edge (the tangent closest to the cutting surface) could be 30-degrees or even higher ... ?

Assuming you mean 30 degrees per side, 60 inclusive. It certainly could be but that is not desirable unless you are cutting (milling) brass or similar. If you have an edge that obtuse you should correct it.

 

[TrumanHW]

I'm not sure I'm willing to hand over $100 for those Hapstone R2 Opti clamps ...

... but it might be worth adding some hash lines as a reference for consistency:

(the device I used a picture from also looked like a nice, robust rig ... just too expensive)