Upside down Kydex sheath

hstdist

hstdist

Joined
Apr 24, 2001
Messages
801
Hi all. I am awaiting my Busse BM-E. Yes I know it's way to big for my uses, and there are alot more practical sized blades around, but I just like big blades and wanted one
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Anyway the end of this month I'll be off to hike the Coastal Trail Lake Superior Prov.Park. I'm taking the Northbound trail up and back.( Did the Southbound last summer)and I want to take my BUSSE. I want to maybe attach it to my packstrap (old Kelty Super Tioga external frame) upside down. I've read the old postings about attaching with tape or electrical ties. Understand this. But the sheath that comes with it an On Scene Tactical Kydex appears to have no retention straps/flap or the like. Is it friction that holds it in? what about in a tumble or going in thick bush(Lots of both),I fear the knife will be pulled out. I guess the handle could somehow be taped but this kinda reduces the ability to take it out quickly,like when I'm bored and just want to look at a pretty sharp thing.Anyone got first hand experience in this. Long post sorry. Also any other suggestions tell me like across the top, underneath the bag
Thanks
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Yours in Conservation
Ken
(edited for spelling)
[This message has been edited by hstdist (edited 06-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by hstdist (edited 06-02-2001).]
 
Normark's sheaths (the On-Scene Tactical ones) are Kydex which is a sort of high tech plastic. It remembers its shape, so when it's molded around something, like your knife, it form fits. A gap allows enough room for everything to expand to let the knife in and out, but still is tight enough to hold everything in place.

If you're really concerned about it after you get it, contact Normark and I'm sure he can set you pu with a sheath that will do everything else you want.

cj
 
I understand completely. The BM probably is a bit too big for what you need. So what? Just be careful you don't scare the civilians too badly
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Most kydex/concealex sheaths hold knives by friction except for Bud Nealy's that also use "rare earth magnets". But the better sheaths, like Normark's, are very solid and secure. However, a big, heavy knife could come out in a fall. By all means call Normark and see what he suggests. He's a great guy.
Under ordinary use the knife is probably safe upside down, but personally I wouldn't trust it unless I added a safety of some sort, like a "leash" or a securing strap. When I carry anything from SH II size up upside down, I usually use a sheath that has a securing strap holding the knife. The strap is very quickly unsnapped with a thumb or 1 motion so it doesn't slow down a draw very much - at least not for utility purposes. But I generally don't like to carry a big knife upside down secured to a pack. I secure it to the side and carry up and down or angle it forward so I can reach it if I have to. If the pack were short enough I'd probably consider lashing it to the top for balance and access, but whenever I carry a daypack I wear the knife because I don't need a hipbelt as I do with a big pack, which is why I lash the big knife to the big pack.
My favourite sheaths were made for me and they actually snap on and off the pack. Sometimes I use 2 sheaths: 1 lashed to the pack [or kayak] and one for carry, which avoids having to lash and unlash, which often is a pain, especially with cold hands, but even in Superior it isn't that cold now. A bit buggy though.

[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 06-02-2001).]
 
Few ideas that I can think of:
-Solid but difficult to remove: bicycle tire rubber bands or similar products sold as ‘ranger rubber bands’ or something like that.
-Improvised on field: paracord loop pulled over knife handle tightening it to sheath or at least preventing fall-out.
-Quick access, easy installation: hook and loop closure tape (from any hardware, Wal-Mart, K-Mart or art supply store) attached to sheath (I used regular office stapler
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but heavy duty might be better) somehow (non-sticky tape might be also good) and close over handle. That worked fine for me.

Also, non-sticky tapes are available from surplus stores (e. g. actiongear.com).

HM



[This message has been edited by HM (edited 06-02-2001).]
 
Kydex is a springy material and it hooks over part of the knife, usually a guard or forefinger groove. Try shaking it upside down when it arrives -- usually you can't throw the knife out of the sheath no matter how you try, but even mass-produced kydex sheaths can vary in retention strength and the needs and preferences of users vary too. If retention is too strong or not strong enough to suit you, you can adjust it by heating cautiously with a blowdryer and bending it to suit. If you put it in a toaster oven you could overheat it and ruin the sheath, but if you use a blowdrier or heat gun or just hold it near a stove for a minute, with a little caution you should be safe.

A sheath should have two retention devices for parachuting or technical climbing. If you use a stiff leather retention strap with velcro or a snap and place it so you can hit it with your thumb you can still do a fast draw in case you're attacked by a beaver or have a sudden need to clean your fingernails. For most purposes, though, kydex alone is fine for upside-down carry.


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-Cougar :{)
Use of Weapons
 
One word of warning from my experience: If you are in heavy brush with only the pressure of the kydex acting to retain your knife, be careful about having a lanyard on the knife.

I was brush busting in the Domelands area of the South Sierra. I had a Mad Dog ATAK2 on my belt. I had the secondary retainer strap unsnapped because I was frequently taking the knife out to cut brush. At one point I was pressing through some brush with the knife still in the sheath and I heard an unusual SNAP! I looked back and my Dog was hanging by the lanyard from a waist high branch. After that I removed the cord and had no problem---the pressure of the kydex retainer system alone was sufficient. Nonetheless, it's worth bearing in mind that the lanyard can cause involuntary drawing of your knife. I imagine this is even more true with an inverted carry position.

Have fun,

DPD.
 
Hey Guys...

I'll have to agree with DPD on this one...

Lanyards can cause some problems No doubt....

As far as how you are attaching your blade to your pack..

Don't fool around with Lashings, bands or any of that Mickey Mouse stuff...

If you are going to mount the blade, make sure you want it there a good majority of the time, because it is a pain in the a$$ to take off.

Personally I would never mount my primary tool onto a piece of gear that "Could"
possibly get lost...

Usually my blades are on my body and thats where they stay..
When I do mount a sheath it is Always with Duct tape or at Least electric tape...

Never,, Never,, Ever would I trust lashing a knife onto Anything. It's simply Far to sloppy (For Me). When I put it there,,thats where it stays...

If I do attach to my ruck, it is strapped down a ski tunnel or strapped to the side.

Ken..

If you wish I will drill out the Talon hole in the front guard on the sheath, so you can run a pin lock through it,, although I really don't think you will need it.
I have your BM-E and sheath in front of me right now,, and there is pretty decent retention on it.

I think you will have to take a pretty good fall to jarr it loose.

However if you want me to try something else for you while I have it in my hot little hands I will try to help you to whatever degree I possibly can. I need to know that you feel safe and comfortable with the gear you choose.. Especially when it comes to MY GEAR!

I think if anything the Talon hole lock would be the best and easiest to manipulate.

Shoot me an e-mail and we'll figure something out.

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
E-mail to ya Eric.
That's why you are an artist and I'm a civil servant
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Yours in Conservation
Ken
 
I've got a Kelty Super Tiogo as well an I've considered attaching my fixed blade to it but I simply can't find a good place to attach it where I can access it while wearing the pack. (Actually there are a few places from which I can pull the knife out but very few where I can put it back without cutting holes in my pack or taking it off.)

The knife I was working with was a CS SRK and I found its size unwealdy on the shoulder strap.

The danger of hanging anything on the outside of your pack is that branches and other snags have an amazing ability to "pick your pocket" as it were regardless of retaining straps or clever devices. You might find yourself better served with the good ole belt sheath.
 
Ever though about using lead solder wire just as a back up. If you don't have time to undue the wire just pull really sharply and the wire will break easily. Just a though.

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It hurts to be on the cutting edge.
 
I agree with all the reservations expressed about having your knife attached to your pack. I do prefer to wear it. But if the load is heavy and you're wearing a hipbelt, there isn't much choice with a big knife, unless you can fit it in a sidepocket or ski/ax tunnel, which isn't always possible.

Is lead solder really lead anymore? If it is, I would pass.

PS
About securing an upside down knife, I forgot to mention one method which I sometimes use, even though I don't love to use it. Most of my lanyards are bungee. Ya, I know, but it works for me. Sometimes I secure the knife in the sheath by stretching the lanyard over the bottom of the sheath. [ie , the top when inverted] You wouldn't want the bungee lanyard flapping around, as someone already noted, and I first used this as a way to secure the lanyard rather than the knife. But it does secure the knife too.
There are limitations: It slows down the draw and sometimes lines and straps can get in the way. It works best on a neck knife, but if you try it it may work for you. But just be careful. Using bungee can be a bit dangerous if you aren't careful.

[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 06-04-2001).]
 
Something that I've used for a number of applications that may help you: adhesive backed velcro. Take an 8 inch piece of both components (hook and loop), stick them back to back. You now have a strap, that when folded around upon itself holds fast, but can be quickly removed. And good luck with the bugs.

Bill
 
Go to the Busse forum and a do a search for "Blade-O-Leer". I had one for my BM-E and it works very well upside down. I have since sold my BM-E and Blade-O-Leer but I am sure if you can find the thread the person can make you one. I can't remember his name so that is why I suggest you do a search.
The person who got my BM-e is "FEVERDOC" on the forums.

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Ron,
Bremerton, Washington
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I never let my troops carry any knife upside down on their gear. Gravity will not be denied!

Bruce
 
Hey Bruce....

Gravity can be Defied with the right kind of sheath..
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If I know it's going Inverted,,you can rest assured it will build it to do the job...

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
Well Eric has modified my sheath for this type of carry and from the responses here I've got some ideas so I'll get back to you all in a month on how well every thing holds up in some real rough terrain.
thanks for the help
by the way bugs what bugs?

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Yours in Conservation
Ken
 
For this kind of an application, you might want to consider leather or cordura. You might be able to get kydex to work, but it sounds like it will take some jury rigging.

I've never had a problem with large knives carried this way thanks to the straps on my "cheap" sheaths, and I do carry on my external frame rucksack quite frequently. Then you can save the "good" kydex for traditional belt carry.
 
Well I finally received my Busse and Eric from On Scene tactical did indeed do some simple modofications that will undoubtedly make the knife in this sheath attached upsidedown on my pack defy gavity. Be back with a resume of my hikig trip at the end of the month.
How's that for a run on sentance
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Yours in Conservation
Ken
 
Hey Ken....

Glad you got the knife and sheath all in one piece..
Thanks for the pens,, they are Great Appreciated, one has already been stolen off of my desk..
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As far as the Drop Pinlok goes,, it's a Very easy system to operate, and gives pretty decent security for the knife, and can easily be remade if need be.

Looking forward in hearing of your encounters...

ttyle

Eric..

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
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