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Very good point Grobe, one of the things pointed out to me this weekend was how some Hemlock was mixed in with a handfull of chickweed that we pulled. In the imortal words of Socrated "I drank what?"
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Urban/Suburban specific skills
- Thread starter gallowglass
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This thread really emphasizes how screwed this city would be in such an event. Guess pigeons and buzzards for me.
Quiet means to bypass locks on food trucks and food larders would be a good idea, hammers, and saws might make too much noise.
Just as in the wilds, water is a primary concern here and any urban area as many urban areas can be quite arid for long periods of time. (even though it is fiction the movie "28 Days Later" showed the problem of no water in a city.)
Great thread hope it continues.
Quiet means to bypass locks on food trucks and food larders would be a good idea, hammers, and saws might make too much noise.
Just as in the wilds, water is a primary concern here and any urban area as many urban areas can be quite arid for long periods of time. (even though it is fiction the movie "28 Days Later" showed the problem of no water in a city.)
Great thread hope it continues.
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zenheretic said:
One will have to build "filter boxes" in the city to make do with "Grey water" and even "black water (yuuuuccckkkkkk). The first thing that I would do in a city in a NO type situation is to think unconventionally. If water was a problem, check out the filtration plants, there is bound to be some clean water in the tanks when the power ran out. It will be the dregs though so it must be treated. think about unusual areas were people congregate in out of the way places, there will always be food and water in those areas.
As an example of "thinking out of the box" in a bad situation. In the fmr Yugo republics some people rigged up automobile alternators on little platforms and hung them out in the rivers with paddles attached to generate power to a wired in battery. No, that will not power a Radio and a fridge, but it might be enough to recharge a radio with nicads, or run a light. And look into "sprouting" beans and grains. They are extremely high in nutrients and a very efficient way to acquire a close to home food supply.
The most effective survival asset that one posseses is located right above the neck and below the hairline. that and prestocking things can make anyone look like a genious......
I think in very large office buildings there are these things on the roof called "chillers" that have to do with the interior climate control and air conditioning of the building. These contain some water, if I am not mistaken. Any heating and air guys here?
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That is an interesting question. Vegas does have an air conditioner or two...jackknife said:
The water plants of course...those can be some distance over potential hostile Indian country however...good idea to map them out previous to time of need. I'm betting most have no idea where such sites are in their cities.
The brain is indeed the universal survival tool...just trying to stock mine up.
Don't forget to think in three dimensions.
ie Stormdrains , cellars etc .
The Polish Resistance and others in WW2 made extensive use of the drains and cellars for everything from hiding to storage to "underground roadways".
If you're exploring these (which , for legal reasons , I don't recommend ) then bear in mind that they are STORMdrains and take into consideration the weather .
Sheerluck
ie Stormdrains , cellars etc .
The Polish Resistance and others in WW2 made extensive use of the drains and cellars for everything from hiding to storage to "underground roadways".
If you're exploring these (which , for legal reasons , I don't recommend ) then bear in mind that they are STORMdrains and take into consideration the weather .
Sheerluck
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
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- 296
Sheerluck,
Good point about the drains and cellers. I understand the Chetchen's also make good martial use of these places.
I'm beginning to think that one of those TI crowbars would be a good addition to an urban survival kit. There's clearly going to be a lot of prying involved and a steel crow is an awfully heavy thing to lug around.
Once, a decade ago, I used to do a lot of "buildering" and "urban exploration" at the major midwestern university I was attending. This was a three dimisional activity : a lot of roof tops, scaffolding, ventilation shafts, and old steam tunnels. Basically, some extreme criminal trespass, but we never "broke into" anywhere or took anything but pictures. We just went a lot of places that people usually didn't and weren't supposed to go.
The one item of self rescue that came in handy many times was a length of 15 ft 10mm climbing rope, folded in half and knotted for fast climbs. With a cabiner at one end linking it to a daisy loop, there were very few places we couldn't get to or out of at it didn't weigh a lot.
I would definetly want a similiar set up if I was in a urban survival situation. With 15 feet of rope, you can go floor to floor if a stairwell is blocked or lower yourself down into the major storm drains.
Take Care,
Jeff
Good point about the drains and cellers. I understand the Chetchen's also make good martial use of these places.
I'm beginning to think that one of those TI crowbars would be a good addition to an urban survival kit. There's clearly going to be a lot of prying involved and a steel crow is an awfully heavy thing to lug around.
Once, a decade ago, I used to do a lot of "buildering" and "urban exploration" at the major midwestern university I was attending. This was a three dimisional activity : a lot of roof tops, scaffolding, ventilation shafts, and old steam tunnels. Basically, some extreme criminal trespass, but we never "broke into" anywhere or took anything but pictures. We just went a lot of places that people usually didn't and weren't supposed to go.
The one item of self rescue that came in handy many times was a length of 15 ft 10mm climbing rope, folded in half and knotted for fast climbs. With a cabiner at one end linking it to a daisy loop, there were very few places we couldn't get to or out of at it didn't weigh a lot.
I would definetly want a similiar set up if I was in a urban survival situation. With 15 feet of rope, you can go floor to floor if a stairwell is blocked or lower yourself down into the major storm drains.
Take Care,
Jeff
Great point about rope for climbing in and out of places.
About the tunnels- In a survival senerio, my area of Washington D.C. has what must be a hundred miles of Metro tunnels. You would need a good led light that was very economical of batteries to explore down there. Not something real bright, but long lasting. Lots of spare batteries.
About the tunnels- In a survival senerio, my area of Washington D.C. has what must be a hundred miles of Metro tunnels. You would need a good led light that was very economical of batteries to explore down there. Not something real bright, but long lasting. Lots of spare batteries.
Jeff,
Can you explain that a bit more? You have 15' , including knots? What do you mean, "folded in half?" I have this image of a knotted, 15' rope connected in a loop with the carabiner such that you have two "strands" in your hand as you climb.
I live in the country, so urban survival would put me in a strange environment. The first two things I would want would be a phone book and a map. I would make a knock-list of things I needed, then see about knocking off some of those items.
Scott
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jackknife said:
I have thought about using the railroad tracks as a impromptu pathway to get out of dodge if I could leave early enough in a bad situation. A mtn bike or a dirt bike could speed you along your way. If one waits though, that same pathway could lead to one getting robbed or worse. RR maps are not a bad idea, and a idea about getting RR train schedule is not a bad idea as well.
"Speed is life"
Baron vonRichthoffen aka "the Red Baron"
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- Apr 28, 2005
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I've done a bit of Urban Spelunking in the past, and let me tell you there are an unimaginable number of places to hole up in in a city.. The steam tunnels under the local campuses run for miles. Abandoned buildings often still have water, and can be squatted in for long perods of time. If your standards are lower, storm drains are livable. I've seen a few that were 10' in diameter in larger cities. Just be careful finding new exits, cars never go over the gate until you poke your head up it seems. Gallowglass is right, rope will save your ass. 15'-20' of knotted rope come in handy when staircases collapse, or when the doors leading to metal catwalks are locked. It's kinda hard to explain to the cops though. "Hmmm what have we here, rope, flashlight, knife, gloves, wonder what this guy is doing?" We have a railway station here, but not that many trains run on it, so walking or biking the tracks can get you where you want to go quick. Quicker than the highway in some places. If you didn't have a problem with eating pigeons, dogs or cats, you could live indefinitely in an urban environment.
We have a railway station here, but not that many trains run on it, so walking or biking the tracks can get you where you want to go quick. Quicker than the highway in some places. If you didn't have a problem with eating pigeons, dogs or cats, you could live indefinitely in an urban environment.most people don't realize that if the water supply is out of service (i.e. lack of power or tainted source), hot water heaters hold a fairly large ammount of "treated" water. most household hot water heaters are about 70 gallons. it's an easy source to tap into should the need arise.
How about security?
If you are occupying an old building or some similar "hide," maybe there would be others looking for the same thing. If New Orleans is any kind of example, there is s reasonable likelihood of gangs wandering around, looking to steal your stuff.
I would imagine that your urban skill set should include knowledge of how to set up a secure place to sleep. Things like intrusion detection and prevention would be important.
Thoughts?
Scott
If you are occupying an old building or some similar "hide," maybe there would be others looking for the same thing. If New Orleans is any kind of example, there is s reasonable likelihood of gangs wandering around, looking to steal your stuff.
I would imagine that your urban skill set should include knowledge of how to set up a secure place to sleep. Things like intrusion detection and prevention would be important.
Thoughts?
Scott
I'm not in HVAC, but I don't think that you can consume the water in the chiller of a building's AC unit because of chemicals they mix with it.
Knowing how to build things without electricity. A skilled carpenter can still work without power tools. Ever try to bore a one inch hole through wood with a manual hand drill?
Having good mechanical aptitude along with a positive attitude would go a long way. Just being able to make do with what you have. Talk to older relatives that lived during WW II, interesting stories to be heard about making do with what you got.
Understanding how locking mechanisms work. If you had a limited amount of tools- say one drill bit or a single hacksaw blade, would you want to risk the tool to try and open something? What is the yield vs. the cost of time/noise/finite supplies?
Get water from windshield washer of a car ? (assuming that there is no soap)
Learning how to weld with a torch. No need for electricity. You will be needing to fabricate/repair stuff.
Knowing how to build things without electricity. A skilled carpenter can still work without power tools. Ever try to bore a one inch hole through wood with a manual hand drill?
Having good mechanical aptitude along with a positive attitude would go a long way. Just being able to make do with what you have. Talk to older relatives that lived during WW II, interesting stories to be heard about making do with what you got.
Understanding how locking mechanisms work. If you had a limited amount of tools- say one drill bit or a single hacksaw blade, would you want to risk the tool to try and open something? What is the yield vs. the cost of time/noise/finite supplies?
Get water from windshield washer of a car ? (assuming that there is no soap)
Learning how to weld with a torch. No need for electricity. You will be needing to fabricate/repair stuff.
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- Oct 19, 2005
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- 296
Scott,
You only carry the rope folded. It's knotted for climbing along it's length. Up end has a screw locked beener hitched in, with a daisy loop on the beener. This allows a lot of rope anchor options, throw options, and gives you a rescue loop that's fast. Fits in a small backpack, too.
Thinking about the earthquake/large building collapse (9-11)scenario, I would want some of the old "blousing rubbers" in my kit. Specifically, to seal the cuffs of my pants and my shirt sleeves, trying to keep out the glass dust as much as possible. You are not going to get far with glass dust in all your crevices. Also, I like to say : "those are my blousing rubbers"
I always have a bandana handy that would be a quasi effective dust mask, but have a filter mask in my vehicle first aid kit that I could put under the bandana for much greater effect.
Security thoughts in longer term scenarios : soda/beer can "chimes" or fall stacks on entry points, always sleeping in a place with a escape route (standard anti-ambush stuff), the age old crumpled newspaper "nightingale" floor.
I think the Superdome clearly shows that it's better to self rescue then to get warehoused into some disease and crime infested refuge camp, so avoiding the FEMA roundups is also a skill to put on the list.
Take Care,
Jeff
You only carry the rope folded. It's knotted for climbing along it's length. Up end has a screw locked beener hitched in, with a daisy loop on the beener. This allows a lot of rope anchor options, throw options, and gives you a rescue loop that's fast. Fits in a small backpack, too.
Thinking about the earthquake/large building collapse (9-11)scenario, I would want some of the old "blousing rubbers" in my kit. Specifically, to seal the cuffs of my pants and my shirt sleeves, trying to keep out the glass dust as much as possible. You are not going to get far with glass dust in all your crevices. Also, I like to say : "those are my blousing rubbers"
I always have a bandana handy that would be a quasi effective dust mask, but have a filter mask in my vehicle first aid kit that I could put under the bandana for much greater effect.
Security thoughts in longer term scenarios : soda/beer can "chimes" or fall stacks on entry points, always sleeping in a place with a escape route (standard anti-ambush stuff), the age old crumpled newspaper "nightingale" floor.
I think the Superdome clearly shows that it's better to self rescue then to get warehoused into some disease and crime infested refuge camp, so avoiding the FEMA roundups is also a skill to put on the list.
Take Care,
Jeff
The biggest question to me, living in an area located near a major city, a semi-urban area, is to stay or to go.
How are communications? Is your electricity, TV and radio out? Is your cell phone able to get through to anyone? If you cannot communicate and no communication can reach you, so that you can follow the situation, what do you decide to do? Do you have the option to choose?
Depending upon the crisis or disaster, staying/"sheltering in place" would seem to be the best idea, and keeping quiet and out of sight. If you can. Do you have the food and water and matches and everything you need to stay (in New Orleans, if flood waters had trapped you in your attic, that would require probably an axe and a saw, minimum....) and survive?
In New Orleans, leaving before hurricane Katrina struck would've been the decision to make. You can do everything to survive after a storm or other natural disaster that's possible, but, you have no control over a natural disaster like the Katrina.
If I'd lived in New Orleans.... Well, hindsight is always at least 20/20 or better, but renting a medium-sized U-Haul or Ryder truck and loading it up with everything that's important to you, and leaving a day or two before Katrina hit, that would've been the best way to go.
Lots of "disasters" to try to be prepared for, and the natural ones are mostly determined by your geographic location. In Ohio, I don't worry as much about earthquakes occurring or hurricanes hitting, but there are the everyday electrical outages and spring/summer/fall tornadoes to worry about and be prepared for.
Hm, then again, there were those quakes in the New Madrid fault system, in the winter of 1811 & 1812.... Shifted the course of the Mississippi river, they say....
GeoThorn
How are communications? Is your electricity, TV and radio out? Is your cell phone able to get through to anyone? If you cannot communicate and no communication can reach you, so that you can follow the situation, what do you decide to do? Do you have the option to choose?
Depending upon the crisis or disaster, staying/"sheltering in place" would seem to be the best idea, and keeping quiet and out of sight. If you can. Do you have the food and water and matches and everything you need to stay (in New Orleans, if flood waters had trapped you in your attic, that would require probably an axe and a saw, minimum....) and survive?
In New Orleans, leaving before hurricane Katrina struck would've been the decision to make. You can do everything to survive after a storm or other natural disaster that's possible, but, you have no control over a natural disaster like the Katrina.
If I'd lived in New Orleans.... Well, hindsight is always at least 20/20 or better, but renting a medium-sized U-Haul or Ryder truck and loading it up with everything that's important to you, and leaving a day or two before Katrina hit, that would've been the best way to go.
Lots of "disasters" to try to be prepared for, and the natural ones are mostly determined by your geographic location. In Ohio, I don't worry as much about earthquakes occurring or hurricanes hitting, but there are the everyday electrical outages and spring/summer/fall tornadoes to worry about and be prepared for.
Hm, then again, there were those quakes in the New Madrid fault system, in the winter of 1811 & 1812.... Shifted the course of the Mississippi river, they say....
GeoThorn