Urban/suburban Survival

I really apprciate all the input.As I have read through the replies it has helped focus my concerns, which is the long term ecenomic depression as opposes to a war or end of the world type thing. The barter skills and skills such as mention above like tailor, shoe repair and having the small neccesities to trade needles, spices etc...
 
HEy, Does the US government allow individual household to build underground tunnel? If they allow, I suggest you build one for your house. That's if you have spare cash.
 
You would run into building code issues doing a tunnel or similar habitable excavation. I cannot imagine my local authorities approving one unless it was designed by a qualified engineer.

If you did one on your own, there are a lot of practical issues such as safety from collapse, problems with ground water, foundation interference, etc. You would have to know what you are doing -- not a trivial amount of expertise. Digging a tunnel, etc. is actually very serious business with very serious consequences for fouling the work up. I am not against people doing it themselves, but it takes an awful lot of know-how. It would be asking for trouble unless you truly know what you are doing.

Don't bury a tank either. They are buoyant in wet soil and will pop up sooner or later. I know a guy who had one pop up under a parked RV after a rainstorm. Picture a ~30 ft RV tipped over with a 1000-gallon plastic septic tank successfully competing for its parking space.

Any kind of underground structure needs to be designed to resist the (substantial) forces from the surrounding earth, both lateral and vertical.

Scott
 
beezaur said:
You would run into building code issues doing a tunnel or similar habitable excavation.
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Everything you say is absolutely true. However, the original question was "does the US government allow individual household to build underground tunnel?" The answer to this is that the US government does not enforce building codes. This is a matter for your city or county governments.

Generally, if you live out in the county; on a farm or ranch, for example; you can get away with a lot more than if you live inside a city limits.

But as Beezaur points out, there's legal and then there's smart. If you're going to start building tunnels, you'd better know what you're doing.
 
Oh! So if you are an Engineer, you can practically build an underground complex! ok, that is totally very COOL! I really would like to see one of your houses build witha series of underground tunnel!
 
As so many others, I live in a small apartment in a big city so this thread really resonates with me. Thanks those who contributed info and websites. I have stockpiled water, food, hardware and other necessities as can be acommodated. I am in relatively good shape for 64 but case studies have shown that the overwhelming advantage in most survival situations belongs to youth and resilience.

It's good to have a gas mask for each member of the household and iodine tablets in case of radiation. (Sorry if such were mentioned previously).

This thread has put it into my head to join a local block association.

The nature and duration of the an emerging situation will, largely dictate how prepared you are and whether it would be wiser to stay or leave. For instance: In the case of one or more dirty bombs or the destruction of a local nuclear reactor, you would have to try to get out because of the radiation. It is glaringly obvious to leave if inundation is a threat whether by hurricane, tsunami, etc.
When to stay would be partially determined by what you hear and see. It is important to have good battery-powered radios. In case of a pandemic, one could only remain isolated as long as supplies hold out. But if conditions outside are violently anarchic. It might be better to hole up as long as possible or, until things settle down a little. You also have to consider how survival conscious your loved one are. In that respect, mine are in denial.

So many things could happen and they all require slightly (or radically)different types of preparation...and...nothing extreme might happen in our lifetimes. That's why it is so hard to prepare appropriately for what's coming; we have to guess.
 
acwire_2125 said:
Oh! So if you are an Engineer, you can practically build an underground complex! ok, that is totally very COOL! I really would like to see one of your houses build witha series of underground tunnel!
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lol. Well, I said you can get away with more if you're in the county than if you're in the city. I didn't say you can get away with everything. Counties have building codes too, and in some locations those codes may preclude a whole series of underground tunnels.

Of course, what the code says and whether they're seriously enforced is two different questions. It really depends on the county. For example, if I could find remote land where I live (Santa Clara county in California), it's doubtful that I could get away with building just anything. On the other hand, if I lived in Yukon-Koyukuk borough in Alaska, and if I went far enough out, I'm guessing I could build a freaking castle out of sugar cane and tar if I wanted to, and there wouldn't be anyone around to say 'no' either, unless it was some nosy environmentalist.
 
i live in the county and its pretty secluded but at the end of our property way way way in the back somebody has put in a subdivision just right outside the property line:mad: . real nice big houses too, to house there big lard @ss families . i cant shoot skeet where i like to normally now so i guess ill just sit out in a corner in the tobacco feild and wait for their dogs to come across the fence........... and shoot'em with one of my rifles:D . i try to look at the bright side of things.
 
so i guess ill just sit out in a corner in the tobacco feild and wait for their dogs to come across the fence........... and shoot'em with one of my rifles . i try to look at the bright side of things.
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can't really say what i feel like saying as i don't feel like being banned form this forum. i would if i were you, sit back and rethink your statement. it doesn't say much for the others that frequent here.
 
I can understand the frustration of having someone build obnoxious things right next door to me. I once owned a house whose backyard opened onto a street and across that street was some nice wetlands. Well, it turned out the street was the county line, and unbeknownest to me the next county over approved a plan to pave over the marsh and fill in the pond so that Consolidated Freight could build a trucking terminal there. Since I didn't live in that county, no one felt the need to notify me of the pending deal so I never got to object.

Next thing I knew, the marsh and pond behind my house was a massive trucking terminal with 24/7 arc lamps lighting up my backyard like it was day and truckers blowing their airhorns at 4 am just to say 'good morning.'

And what could I do about it? Not a damn thing, since the cops one county away didn't care to respond to light and noise pollution complaints from a guy who didn't live in their county.

But ... that didn't mean that I wanted to shoot anyone. Well, I did, but not seriously. I solved the problem by billing the 24/7 lights as a security feature, sold the house to a yuppie from the 'burbs and moved to the mountains in california where they don't have trucking terminals. (I subsequently misstepped and fell in love with a woman who lived in the 'burbs, but that's neither here nor there.)

Somethings you just can't, and shouldn't, fight, I guess.
 
gutsy said:
i live in the county and its pretty secluded but at the end of our property way way way in the back somebody has put in a subdivision just right outside the property line:mad: . real nice big houses too, to house there big lard @ss families . i cant shoot skeet where i like to normally now so i guess ill just sit out in a corner in the tobacco feild and wait for their dogs to come across the fence........... and shoot'em with one of my rifles:D . i try to look at the bright side of things.
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Why not dig trenches near that house and plant booby traps and land mines behind that trench? I believe they will not come out! If not, KA BOOM!
 
gutsy said:
i live in the county and its pretty secluded but at the end of our property way way way in the back somebody has put in a subdivision just right outside the property line:mad: . real nice big houses too, to house there big lard @ss families . i cant shoot skeet where i like to normally now so i guess ill just sit out in a corner in the tobacco feild and wait for their dogs to come across the fence........... and shoot'em with one of my rifles:D . i try to look at the bright side of things.
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Why not dig trenches near that house and plant booby traps and land mines behind that trench? I believe they will not come out! If not, KA BOOM!:p
 
acwire_2125 said:
Why not dig trenches near that house and plant booby traps and land mines behind that trench? I believe they will not come out! If not, KA BOOM!:p
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Oh, because some kid would wander into that get and get all blown to hell. Then gutsy would be going to jail for murder.

This thread is going south in a hurry.
 
I think the idea of your nieghbors as allies is a good one. If you have a tight knit bunch of nieghbors the poster who said they could circle the wagons was right. You won't make it alone. There's reason for a herd. If TSHTF there is going to be lots of have nots trying to take from the have's.

In the late 1700's/early 1800's a couple hundred Dutch settlers stood off a couple thousand Zulu's at a place called Blood River. They stuck together.

I think a built up supply of everything from sewing needles and thread, to first aid supplies, ammo, coffee, tobacco, salt and pepper, and just about everything in common use could be very valuble trade goods.

Anyone thought about airguns for hunting of small game around the homestead? No noise to carry long way, and usually more small game around than big stuff. Several tins of pellets are cheap and store well.
 
jackknife said:
Anyone thought about airguns for hunting of small game around the homestead? No noise to carry long way, and usually more small game around than big stuff. Several tins of pellets are cheap and store well.
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Personally, I'd prefer a .22 pistol with match-grade sites and a couple of bricks of ammunition for going after small game. People can and have taken down everything up to small deer with this particular class of firearm. The only thing a good air pistol has over the .22 is the air pistol is quieter. But I believe the .22 is more versatile in the long run.

.22 ammo is amazingly light, compact and inexpensive. And if you're really hunting for your survival, it ought to do the job nicely.

That said, a better option might be trapping. This requires practice to do well, but by all accounts it's much more energy efficient than is hunting for your food.
 
WEll, I prefer a town built in a very stratege position. The whole town is equipped with weapons of war like anti-tank and GPMG. So in times of emergency, they are self suffiencent.
 
Well, first thing you need is at least one dog. I've got two. Dogs hunt. Dogs guard. Dogs could be eaten, but I think that would be short sighted. With dogs, you're in good shape whether the loss of services is short or long. Next, you need a well and a hand pump (electric pumps won't work). If you live in the city, I hope there's a river or lake nearby or you're going to get thirsty. You're going to need ammo. For realistic scenarios, you won't need much ammo. Let's see. What else? Surgical kit. Some food stocks would be nice so you wouldn't have to start hunting so quickly. That's about it for any realistic scenario.

Unrealistic total anarchy type situations would be accompanied by plague, so you'd probably die unless you live in the sticks. If you live in the sticks and survive the plague, you'd need lots of ammo and 12 guage and .22 would be best (you're hunting with dogs, so you don't need a bunch of centerfire rifle ammo). No roving hords to worry about after the first few weeks because the plague will get them. Medicines like antibiotics would be good, but they have a shelf life. This kind of scenario isn't one you should put much thought in. Too depressing and non-productive. You'd be better off spending your mental energy trying to arrange you're finances to survive another Great Depression.
 
Survival is a state of mind, and a tactic. In an urban survival situation all the amenites that we rely on like public health, police and electricity (and thus communication) would be kaput.
You need cash or gold.
You need shelter (if your home is destroyed then some tarps to fix the roof or rig a shelter.
You need water and the means for purifying it and you need food.
Canned goods are great, a camping stove to boil water is a must, a bettr thing would be a little portable generator with a couple of jerry cans of diesel or petrol to run it.
You need medicine, especially antibiotics and the knowledge to apply them appropriate to the condition. You need at least a basic first aid kit.
You need radio communications and a scanner to pick up on police/army voice traffic- your mobile ohone won't work..
You need to know a bit about mechanics and you need to know how to get a car running even if you don't own it; hot-wiring.
You need to be able to help other people by having enough of the above to share with others and get a little group happening.
You also have to make a big effort to lead, maintain morale and generally display a sense of humour and optimism (don't underestimate this; morale is probably more important than anything).
Some ju-jitsu knowlede is alseo very handy.
Keep a low profile if things are hostile.
Work out an escape plan.
W
 
WEll, nice analysis! But when such thing happen, I don't think you have that much AMMO! unless you have a armoury in your basement!
 
Note; a cyclone recently destroyed a town in northern Australia - Innisfail.
Many residents were frustrated that they couldn't access there money as the atms and banks were all closed due to no power etc. They knew they could buy what they needed but they couldn't access there cash. So they have had to sleep in community shelters and live on army rations for days- not much fun- if only they'd had a few hundred dollars stashed they would have been a little happier..
 
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