URGENT NJ ALERT: Call/Write Gov. Christie to Veto Draconian Ivory Ban Bill TODAY!

[Critter]

New Jersey ALERT: Knife Rights Asks NJ Gov. Christie to Veto Draconian Ivory Ban Bill - WRITE or CALL TODAY!

In a move that caught just about everyone by surprise, the New Jersey legislature quietly passed S.2012/A.3128, a draconian total ivory ban bill with no exemptions for existing legal ivory and that even bans 10,000-year-old mammoth ivory. Knife Rights has asked Gov. Christie to veto this irrational and very destructive bill.

We need all New Jersey residents and all who do business in New Jersey to WRITE or CALL the Governor TODAY and ask him to VETO S.2012/A.3128, the ivory Ban Bill!

Email Governor Christie at: Constituent.Relations@gov.state.nj.us
Call the Governor at: 609-292-6000

When you call or write, all you need to do is ask the Governor to ask him to VETO S.2012/A.3128, the ivory Ban Bill. If you'd like to write more, please see the NJ Ivory Ban Letter at:
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=274

Read Knife Rights letter here: www.KnifeRights.org/Gov_Christie_NJ_Ivory_Ban_06192014_Final.pdf

Read the Ivory Ban Bill (S.2012/A.3128) here: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2014/Bills/A3500/3128_I1.HTM

 

[Twindog]

So how would you address the mass slaughter of elephants by ivory poachers?

 

[Bigfatts]

So how would you address the mass slaughter of elephants by ivory poachers?

Maybe by addressing the actual problem? A ban like this will have a negligible effect on ivory poaching. The USA already has in place rather strict regulations pertaining to ivory and it's sale. There is also a very low demand for new ivory in the US. A ban like this will negatively impact American industries- like the knife industry- that commonly use ancient ivories from extinct animals like the Mastodon/mammoth. Look to eastern countries like China who are driving the demand for new ivory.

Eta:
Stricter control of ivory may not be a bad thing, but there definitely need to be concessions for things like ancient or extinct forms of ivory. And non elephant ivories should be considered seperately. A blanket ban like this does very little good but can have distinct negative impacts. Unfortunately, it will probably pass. Because few people really take the time to look at the full scope of it and the effects it can have on American industries.

 

[Critter]

So how would you address the mass slaughter of elephants by ivory poachers?

As noted in our letter, Knife Rights and all those we represent unequivocally support practical and lawful efforts to defend elephants in the field from poachers as well as lawful enforcement activities that directly target illegal black-market trade in ivory, efforts that have resulted in a most welcome internationally recognized decrease in elephant poaching over the past few years. Abusing U.S. owners of legal ivory by taking their property does nothing to affect poaching in Africa and numerous studies and authorities have documented that fact. Even the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service as recently as 2012 noted there is no illegal ivory problem in the U.S. The problem is in China; that's where virtually all the illegally poached ivory is going. Illegally and unconstitutionally punishing U.S. citizens won't change that.

 

[Aaroninfrisco]

The only way to stop poachers, and the incredible atrocities they commit, seems to be to stop the demand for ivory. If that's the only way, so be it. I'll take the preservation of elephants over pretty ivory every time.

 

[Bigfatts]

The only way to stop poachers, and the incredible atrocities they commit, seems to be to stop the demand for ivory. If that's the only way, so be it. I'll take the preservation of elephants over pretty ivory every time.

And that's why laws like this pass. People simply do not care about the long reaching, unintended consequences. If a law like this would actually help curb demand for new ivory there would be much less to argue. The fact that it will not is a very good reason to argue down this bill. And no one is saying further restrictions on new elephant ivory is a bad thing. But laws like this, as a whole, do very little good and have the ability to do a lot of damage. Just because parts of a law may make us feel good doesn't mean we should hurry and pass them without looking at them as a whole and possibly rewriting them because of parts that don't make sense.

 

[killgar]

And that's why laws like this pass. People simply do not care about the long reaching, unintended consequences. If a law like this would actually help curb demand for new ivory there would be much less to argue. The fact that it will not is a very good reason to argue down this bill. And no one is saying further restrictions on new elephant ivory is a bad thing. But laws like this, as a whole, do very little good and have the ability to do a lot of damage. Just because parts of a law may make us feel good doesn't mean we should hurry and pass them without looking at them as a whole and possibly rewriting them because of parts that don't make sense.

Do ya ever feel like you're banging your head against a wall Bigfatts? A lot of people are "headline thinkers", they don't read, or think, beyond the headlines. Many people never bother to read the fine print, nor do they care what it might say, or what rights it might take away from them, or how many innocent people might go to prison as a result.

I don't want a single elephant to be killed for it's ivory. I also don't want to see some law-abiding knife owner/maker be sent to prison because he owns a knife with a handle made from 10,000 year old fossilized mammoth ivory. A law that makes no distinction between poached ivory, and fossilized ivory that came from an animal that died long before man walked upright, is a bad law that should be fought.

 

[Critter]

The only way to stop poachers, and the incredible atrocities they commit, seems to be to stop the demand for ivory. If that's the only way, so be it. I'll take the preservation of elephants over pretty ivory every time.

I am assuming you have not read the letter, or I would think you would understand that there is ZERO DEMAND in the U.S. for poached ivory. The demand for poached ivory comes primarily from China. So, anything that punishes U.S. ivory owners has no impact on the poachers in Africa, it only punishes U.S. ivory owners for no good reason. There is no connection between the U.S. ivory market in decades old ivory legally imported into the U.S. prior to the now 24-year-old import ban and the illegal trade in poached ivory in China today.

 

[skyhorse]

Good luck if you think this guy is gonna help you.
[video=youtube;hceRi5L1vPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hceRi5L1vPE[/video]

 

[Bigfatts]

Do ya ever feel like you're banging your head against a wall Bigfatts?

Me and the wall are old friends.

 

[Charlie_K]

So how would you address the mass slaughter of elephants by ivory poachers?

By stop being stupid.

 

[skyhorse]

I will email my concerns but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Aaroninfrisco]

I am assuming you have not read the letter, or I would think you would understand that there is ZERO DEMAND in the U.S. for poached ivory. The demand for poached ivory comes primarily from China. So, anything that punishes U.S. ivory owners has no impact on the poachers in Africa, it only punishes U.S. ivory owners for no good reason. There is no connection between the U.S. ivory market in decades old ivory legally imported into the U.S. prior to the now 24-year-old import ban and the illegal trade in poached ivory in China today.

Please post the link to statistics that there is zero demand for fresh ivory in the U.S. from the black market. I couldn't find them.

Thanks

 

[Critter]

I will email my concerns but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

If he starts getting lots of email it will be noticed. He has presidential aspirations and if we can give him a reasonable way out, he may respond as we want. One advantage is that the bill sponsors went so far overboard that they may have provided just that opening. EMAIL and CALL TODAY!

 

[Shotgun]

Do ya ever feel like you're banging your head against a wall Bigfatts? A lot of people are "headline thinkers", they don't read, or think, beyond the headlines. Many people never bother to read the fine print, nor do they care what it might say, or what rights it might take away from them, or how many innocent people might go to prison as a result.

I don't want a single elephant to be killed for it's ivory. I also don't want to see some law-abiding knife owner/maker be sent to prison because he owns a knife with a handle made from 10,000 year old fossilized mammoth ivory. A law that makes no distinction between poached ivory, and fossilized ivory that came from an animal that died long before man walked upright, is a bad law that should be fought.

Me and the wall are old friends.

It's always easier to think that the other side is a bunch of idiots isn't it? It's hard to imagine that the person is actually informed AND has come to a different conclusion then you.

I'll pass on this one.

 

[RedLynx]

Please post the link to statistics that there is zero demand for fresh ivory in the U.S. from the black market. I couldn't find them.

Thanks

So... you're asking for links to a lack of statistics?

I'd be interested in your findings on the the current demands for ivory in the U.S. from the black market. I trust you have these figures to hand somewhere. Thanks.

Don't own any ivory knives nor plan to, no real dino in this orgy here, but it sounds like you have some pertinent info worth sharing.

 

[killgar]

It's always easier to think that the other side is a bunch of idiots isn't it? It's hard to imagine that the person is actually informed AND has come to a different conclusion then you.

I'll pass on this one.

Where did I call anyone an "idiot". Did I say anything in post #7 that is inaccurate? Do you deny that there are a lot of people in this world who only read the headlines, form their opinions based on those headlines, and don't bother to read any deeper?

 

[Twindog]

Only a few decades ago, when I was still a kid, more than 5 million elephants roamed the plains and jungles of Africa. Now, their numbers are down to a tenth of that and dropping fast. Poachers kill tens of thousands each year. Elephants often die while their faces are bing cut off to retrieve their ivory.

Most of the poached ivory goes to China and other Asian nations, such as Thailand. That demand is fueled by the prosperity we have sent to China along with our manufacturing jobs.


Unfortunately, illegal ivory easily seeps into the legal market because we don’t devote nearly the enforcement resources needed to properly address the problem. Sellers commonly falsify documents to say the ivory that they are selling came from pre-ban ivory. It’s not true. It’s a lie. Unless and until we stop using ivory — or actually invest in the enforcement necessary to stop illegal trade — we’ll be helpless to stop the slaughter and, ultimately, the loss of elephants altogether.

As knife enthusiasts, we can be part of the solution by refusing to buy or sell any ivory products, or we can continue to be part of the problem by insisting that all is fine.

People like Scott Ritter will always be around to push ivory sales, knowing full well that none of us can know whether the ivory we buy is legal, pre-ban, or illegal. It’s another way to bury our heads in the sand. I'd be more inclined to respect Ritter if he and his group were presenting ideas to shut down the demand for ivory in China, but he has no such proposal.

I, for one, will never buy any ivory knife; nor will I buy from any knife maker who uses ivory or who advocates the continued use of ivory.

 

[RedLynx]

Unfortunately, illegal ivory easily seeps into the legal market because we don’t devote nearly the enforcement resources needed to properly address the problem. Sellers commonly falsify documents to say the ivory that they are selling came from pre-ban ivory. It’s not true. It’s a lie.

I'm not an expert in this, in fact not even an amateur so perhaps you can tell me if this is so, but would there not be a way to "test" ivory to see that it is at least X number of years old? I realize your position is one of total disuse of ivory altogether. Again, not an owner of an ivory-handled knife and no particular plans to be, myself. But I'm just asking, is there not a way to test the age of ivory to ensure it is compliant? Perhaps that is a foolish question, I don't know, maybe it cannot be done... but we test the age of so many other things in the natural world I figured there might be a way, no?

 

[Critter]

Please post the link to statistics that there is zero demand for fresh ivory in the U.S. from the black market. I couldn't find them.

Thanks

Studies by ETIS (the Elephant Trade Information System set up by CITES) indicate that virtually none of the ivory from elephants being poached in Africa today is coming to the U.S. ("African Elephant Summit Background Document 2013," pages 16-18) http://ebookbrowsee.net/african-elephant-summit-background-document-2013-en-pdf-d641357039 Another study by ETIS indicated that laws passed in the U.S. have little effect on elephant populations ("Martin Stiles Ivory Markets in the US," page 5) (looking for a link to the whole study). These same studies indicate that the U.S. is already the world leader in the fight against trafficking of illicit animal parts, out of 89 counties studied, and by a significant margin.

Or, how about a dose of simple economics and common sense: When the black market price of raw ivory in China exceeds $1500 per pound (per numerous reports) and the price for perfectly legal and readily available decades-old ivory in the U.S. is $250 per pound, why would criminals run the risk of trying to bring illegal ivory into the U.S., with its internationally recognized effective customs enforcement, when they can sell it in China for six times the U.S. price with extremely lax to non-existent customs enforcement. Beyond that, with readily available legal ivory in the U.S. at reasonable prices, there simply is no reason anyone in the U.S. needs to turn to the black market. There are tons of legal ivory available today in the U.S. to anyone who wants to use if for knife handles, gun grips, artwork or whatever, there's no need to smuggle in illegal ivory.