US army ALICE packs

Fieldtestornothing said:
. . . Try loading them with 100+ lbs of gear and jumping out of a plane. See if they survive or not.
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I think I'll try to avoid that experience. :D

For more typical challenges, I echo what has been said above regarding frame packs with padded waistbelts. They put the majority of the weight where our design means it to rest - on the pelvis.

Alice is an excellent -- truly tough -- example of an obsolete tool, the haversack. The haversack's shortcomings (pain, back strain, and interference with respiration being the worst) were first identified in the Civil War. A Union Surgeon designed an alternative, with wood stays transferring most of the weight to a broad cartridge belt. The Army rejected the design (along with the magazine rifle). The Surgeon General of the Army tried again in 1917 - again rejected. Over a hundred years late, the Army saw the light.

The Alice frame? Absent a padded waist belt, the Alice frame merely makes it a sort of Bergen Ski Pack (AKA "The Kidney Killer" of WWII infamy), but, alas, we are not talking about skying, are we?

Improved shoulder straps do reduce the pain factor.

A proper frame of carbon fiber would result in a frame pack as tough as the Alice.
 
I have a medium A.L.I.C.E w/ new straps . It's one tough pack but like they say, it's not very comfy to try pack all day. Yes you can pack a lot of equipment into one & it would probably survive a nuclar blast :eek: just not the most comfortable pack out there but they are not that expensive either.
 
Apparently none of you know that an ALICE pack can be upgraded. You won't save any money over a new frame pack like a Kelty, Jansport is truly gabage, but you will end up with a rugged backpack. Only you can say if is worth the time and money spent. Here is a link. I won't supply the phone number, if you are serious you can make further contact.

http://www.csmgear.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=2
 
2dogs said:
Apparently none of you know that an ALICE pack can be upgraded. You won't save any money over a new frame pack like a Kelty, Jansport is truly gabage, but you will end up with a rugged backpack. Only you can say if is worth the time and money spent. Here is a link. I won't supply the phone number, if you are serious you can make further contact.

http://www.csmgear.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=2
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Didn't someone(s) mention improved shoulder straps?

And why not just buy the superior product (jumping out of a plane with 100 lb. load aside)?
 
Thomas you didn't look at the site did you? Give it a try.

I use a Kelty frame pack however it may not be suitable for everyone. I can see where it may be too big or too tall for SAR missions. I don't like an internal frame pack for carrying a big load unless I am going to use it skiing, then I have a Kelty Redcloud. I much prefer an external frame pack as it is much cooler. REI stocks only a few Kelty frame packs in the Saaratoga store but has a huge selection of internal frame packs. I wouldn't mind replacing the Redcloud before winter. For 3 days or less I love the Camelbak BFM.
 
The Tactical Tailor has some improved straps and such for the Alice. I haven't tried them yet, but they have gotten good reviews. I'm not on my usual computer so I don't have the addy for them handy, just do a search and I'm sure you'll find them.
Bob
 
Everyone's back is different, try it on before making your decision. For me, it's far more comfortable than "modern" designs, and more durable. I've been through quite a few EMS and REI packs, and my alice is more comfortable. I must have the exact body dimensions that they designed it for. I've done a lot of extended hiking and backpacking in it, as well as climbing 10 of Colorado's 14'ers in it. Love it, but as always, YMMV.
 
I have a bad back and the ALICE works for me partly because it's what I'm used to and also becuase they are nearly indestructible. A set of new straps and you should be set. I don't use the frame because it's horribly uncomfortable and doesn't help with weight distribution. If you use the pack without the frame it will ride high on your shoulders giving your lower back a rest. Sodak's right, everyone's different though.
 
2dogs said:
You won't save any money over a new frame pack like a Kelty, Jansport is truly gabage, but you will end up with a rugged backpack.
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Did I read wrong or did you call Jansport garbage? Every outdoors pack that I have is a Jansport. I bought them when they were one of the only things in my price range, but still couldn't be happier. My external frame Rainier has been dragged and dropped down sides of cliffs, and other abuses, with no problems. It's carried way more weight than any pack should be expected to carry, and it's done it without breaking or becoming uncomfortable. It distributes weight exactly as a pack should. My other pack is a single compartment top loader, without frame but with strong back padding and a waist belt. Neither pack has so much as a torn seam from years of extremely hard use. No strap has failed, no zipper has failed, no water has leaked in.
 
SpookyPistolero said:
Did I read wrong or did you call Jansport garbage? Every outdoors pack that I have is a Jansport. I bought them when they were one of the only things in my price range, but still couldn't be happier. My external frame Rainier has been dragged and dropped down sides of cliffs, and other abuses, with no problems. It's carried way more weight than any pack should be expected to carry, and it's done it without breaking or becoming uncomfortable. It distributes weight exactly as a pack should. My other pack is a single compartment top loader, without frame but with strong back padding and a waist belt. Neither pack has so much as a torn seam from years of extremely hard use. No strap has failed, no zipper has failed, no water has leaked in.
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I agree, Jansport makes some durable and decent gear. They are definitely not the best designs, but they are very good for the money. Just look at the millions of kids with Jansport backpacks that carry 50 lbs of books at school everyday. I don't know about you, but I am a lot nicer to my gear that a 10 year old is, so I think Jansports can hold up just fine. They have some neat ideas with their internal frame packs, like the detachable parts for wandering away from camp.

I personally use a Gregory Forester at the moment. I am about to switch to an Osprey Atmos 50, since I don't need the 4800 ci that the Forester has. Also, the Atmos's mesh back is friggin cool. Not super durable, but that is what you get for a 3 lb internal frame pack with 3000 ci.

Like someone said before, the whole idea of an internal frame pack is that it takes the weight off your shoulders and puts it close to your back and on your hips. With a good internal frame, you can remove the shoulder and sternum straps when your shoulders are tired, and your 40 lb pack will stay next to your back with just the hip supports with no problem. If you look hard enough, you can find a nice one for under $50, and a really nice one for under $100. My favorite spots are rei.com's outlet, sierratradingpost.com, and backcountryoutlet.com. Steepandcheap.com has them all the time, but they only have one item at a time, so you may have to watch for a while.

As someone else said, go to a store and try the different kinds of packs. You don't necessarily have to take your own gear, but it is a good idea so you can see how to properly pack it. Any outdoor store like REI will have weighted bags for you to test the pack. Walk around the store with it looking at other stuff, so you can see what it feels like. Try the Atmos, so you can see how awesomely comfortable it is. :)
 
2dogs said:
Thomas you didn't look at the site did you? Give it a try.
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Oh, I did look. I even puzzled out what the vendor meant to say (but did not say) as regards what you get for the different prices. (The vendor is obviously not a technowennie.) So there are three Alice upgrade options: two different upgrades for shoulder straps and an upgrade that seems to include hip belt, although he never says that. You too can have a $135 Alice.

In fact, you could buy the universal Camptrails hip belt and, I am sure, cooper up a way to attach it to Alice.

You could even strap Alice to the Camptrials "frighter" set up (frame with straps, shelf, and padded waistbelt, but no pack) -- if they still made it OR replace the pack on the Camptrails Adjustable II with Alice.

In any case, seems to me that you would merely approach what you can buy outright (and more water-resistant at that), jumping out of planes with a 100 lb. load aside.

Everyone tends to do what makes 'em happy and the last guy without prejudices and preconceptions died before he was born.:D Alice has languished in my basement since 1979, when I bought my first modern backpack.

(But do not wait to buy your external frame setup if that floats your boat. They are dying out -- fewer models available every year.)
 
What makes the Alice so durable????????? is it the stiching??? the cloth they use???? I had never heard of anyone says that his Alice let them down cause it fell apart... The reason i ask is why cant they use same time of cloth and stiching to make a more Modern pack that would still be bomb proof.. This way it would be the best of both worlds and maybe it wont be much more expansive then the OLD Alice..... Just think about it you buy it today with your kids in mind... But realy what makes it last so long compare to most other packs out there

Sasha
 
The ALICE pack is low-bid garbage and you would be better served spending the extra money on any of the widely-available external frame backpacks. I think Kelty has a decent one for about $100.
 
Sasha, I am guessing newer packs don't use it because of the weight. The heavy canvas is not really very light, and is not waterproof unless you treat it. Newer packs use very thin, very light materials that can be easily coated to become waterproof or at least water resistant. I am good to my packs, so I might be a bad example, but my Gregory is still in perfect condition after many trips, and it is definitely not a heavy weight material.
 
Go to a brick and mortar store like REI. They have staff that know what they are doing, and can get you set up with a pack that fits and is comfortable for teh long haul. And, not only will reputable stores back you up with loading a pack with your gear before you buy, but they should have weight there to simulate a loaded pack. Getting a few miles back in the woods, and then realizing that your pack doesn't cut it is not worth the money spent for a good modern pack.
 
The material in the ALICE pack is lighter than 1000D. It's just a grade of packcloth that isn't garbage. And you can kill one, I had one that I retired because I was sick of repairing seams. And you can do some really interesting origami with the frames if they are dropped wrong.

And Mike, you're right- there are exactly two opinions on the ALICE pack. I'm sorely tempted to get a large patch embroidered that says "If you don't like my pack, you don't have to carry it- shut the **** up." I think a lot of people damn the pack becuase the frame sucks as issued; personally, I think the frame was designed to be worn over armour. But that is the frame, not the pack.

As for Kelty... I like and have used their sleeping bags, but I once watched a Kelty internal practically fall apart as it's owner tried to go through a tight thicket. A lot of the modern, light weight stuff turns into scrap if you go off a defined trail.

Durability comes at a price. So does lightness. Find the happy medium for you. But remember, fashion comes at the highest price of all.
 
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