US Steels?

Alex Topfer said:
Trying to think how to answer this without getting into politics 😂
There's no guarantee that production will stay in the US. There are too many unknown's to predict what will happen, so production being moved offshore is a possibility. Remember that while the US is a significant market it is still only ~5% of the population. If the US is pursuing an isolationist economic policy it may be easier for a global company to just ignore you all
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Well, it looks like for now that PM steels will be made overseas. I don't mind getting into politics. Everything is politics at the end of the day. Full disclosure: I'm a fair trader, not a free trader (no such thing really). Therefore, I have no problem with RECIPROCAL tariffs. I don't think the steel tariff falls under that category, though.

A lot of countries have tariffs and trade restrictions on American products and we're sick of being ridden like a whore. There, a bit of politics. Now I will stop.
 
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the US taxed steel coming from Canada and elsewhere back in 2018. It did lead to a small surge or bubble in US steel manufacturing which very quickly fell off a cliff. These taxes on imported goods ended up being a significant anchor for the US economy. I think it only lasted a year before the magnitude of that policy failure called for most of the tax to be rolled back, from Canada at least. This time around, it's super sized and it is going to cost Americans a lot more than before. Hopefully it doesn't last long.

1/5 of the steel and 1/2 the aluminum imported into the US comes from Canada, and that will cost US companies 25% more just bringing in those raw materials. Cost inputs at that level of manufacture I think produce spiralling costs that inflate the retail price quite a bit. The bigger problem with the 25% across the board tax on Canadian products is the damage to the neighbourly relationship which will cause collateral damage, (ie; tourism to the US). But ultimately, this tax will be levied on steel from all nations where the supply comes from. I don't think the US has anywhere close to the manufacturing capacity it needs to make a measurable impact on how much steel the country consumes.

things are going to be unnecessarily hard for everyone, and judging by the last time this happened it'll end up being just a bunch of smoke and mirrors with a whole lotta people left in the lurch.
 
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One thing that isn't intuitive to folks not in manufacturing is the bottom line profit. It is a percentage, not a dollar figure.

A simplified explanation:
If company A makes its steel product at a base cost of $10, plus $10 operating costs and wants a 10% bottom line profit, it sells for $22. If that base price goes up by 25% to 12.50, they don't sell it for $24.50, the now sell it for $24.75. On this micro scale that does not seem like much, but at the scale of an entire industry, it can be billions in extra cost to the consumer ... and potentially more profit for the industry if the product is a commodity that is still in demand/need despite the higher cost.

Did anyone stop driving when gas jumped a dollar a gallon? - No, we just paid it and kept going.
Did the oil companies make more profit - Yes, they made record profits, all the time crying that they were victims of higher crude prices.

Not trying to get political here, but this is the basis of Trump's plan. The government collects the tariffs and makes more income. The Businesses make more profit, and the owners and shareholders get richer. The consumer still gets the product and puts up with the small increase because they don't have the financial power to object. A win for government and business. A tolerable inconvenience for the consumer that won't cause much resistance.
 
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HPD said:
In that case somebody else in the US would start selling whizmits for $1 (assuming it was profitable for you to continue selling them for that price, which I'm assuming because you were actually selling them at that price).
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Unfortunately, in often doesn’t work like that in the real world. I gave a real life example in my video.

Composite glass has been becoming more and more popular for knife handles.

There is a U.S. manufacturer of it, but it costs roughly four times as much as its Chinese and Malaysian counterparts. Store sales have quickly shown that my customers are rarely willing to spend the extra cost for the U.S. made material. Understandable considering the price difference. Material costs, labor costs, the clean water act, and a plethora of other things make it difficult to produce cheaply in the U.S.

Let’s say I buy $1,000 of the overseas made glass. The old tariff used to be 20%. It’s now 30%. That increases the costs of the overseas glass to $1,300. The U.S. made stuff is $4,000 for the same amount, so it still makes sense to purchase the overseas made stuff…. And would continue to make sense even with a 100% tariff. Not many of my customers are willing to pay three times as much for the same material based on point of origin.

Assuming glass sales stay the same, the only things the tariffs change in this case is that the U.S. government gets more money, my business gets more money, and the U.S. consumer spends more money.
 
I hope I'm not alone in noticing that people have been pretty unhappy about inflation lately.

I will not be happy when I have to pay more for the CPM steel my Canadian suppliers carry, provided they even carry it going forward. They may choose equivalent options from other sources instead.
 
I feel the biggest factor in knife cost is cost of living. The nickle and dimming of tariffs adds up in the bigger picture and so custom knife prices increase.

I might be pessimistic but I am feeling we might be at peak of boutique knife steels.
 
“Tolerable” becomes intolerable at some point.
 
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Fixall said:
Unfortunately, in often doesn’t work like that in the real world. I gave a real life example in my video.

Composite glass has been becoming more and more popular for knife handles.

There is a U.S. manufacturer of it, but it costs roughly four times as much as its Chinese and Malaysian counterparts. Store sales have quickly shown that my customers are rarely willing to spend the extra cost for the U.S. made material. Understandable considering the price difference. Material costs, labor costs, the clean water act, and a plethora of other things make it difficult to produce cheaply in the U.S.

Let’s say I buy $1,000 of the overseas made glass. The old tariff used to be 20%. It’s now 30%. That increases the costs of the overseas glass to $1,300. The U.S. made stuff is $4,000 for the same amount, so it still makes sense to purchase the overseas made stuff…. And would continue to make sense even with a 100% tariff. Not many of my customers are willing to pay three times as much for the same material based on point of origin.

Assuming glass sales stay the same, the only things the tariffs change in this case is that the U.S. government gets more money, my business gets more money, and the U.S. consumer spends more money.
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While what you're saying is true, it's non analogous. In your example the US product was already more expensive. In the example I was addressing, Stacey's example, the US product was less expensive. Again, if a US producer increased his price to match the foreign product's price, what would stop another US producer from undercutting him? Basic economics. I suppose there might be a temporary increase in the cost of the US product as demand for it would increase, but that would only encourage more production which would eventually offset the increased demand.
 
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Wishfulthinker580 said:
This is a weird thread. I get the griping from non-Americans but the rest seem to be missing the forest for the trees.
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Yep, but I don't want to cause a stink. They're trying so hard to not be political, but it's easy to read the "tea leaves." Here's the bottom line. The US is in fiscal and monetary trouble due to years of mismanagement. Cutting government spending and increasing taxes on somebody is the only way out of the impending disaster. Would you rather have increased corporate taxes which will be passed onto the consumer and discourage domestic production, or would you rather have tariffs against foreign producers and lowered corporate taxes which will produce a temporary net increase in costs to American consumers but encourage domestic production which will allow us to grow out of the current morass, eventually producing higher income?
 
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HPD said:
Yep, but I don't want to cause a stink. They're trying so hard to not be political, but it's easy to read the "tea leaves." Here's the bottom line. The US is in fiscal and monetary trouble due to years of mismanagement. Cutting government spending and increasing taxes on somebody is the only way out of the impeding disaster. Would you rather have increased corporate taxes which will be passed onto the consumer and discourage domestic production, or would you rather have tariffs against foreign producers and lowered corporate taxes which will produce a temporary net increase in costs to American consumers but encourage domestic production which will allow us to grow out of the current morass, eventually producing higher income?
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Short term suffering for long term benefit.
 
Lorien said:
which means that Canadians be paying a lot more for CPM, Carpenter, whoever else down there who might be making the stuff we love.
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As Canadians, we always end up paying more for everything all the time.
It seems to be the Canadian way...🤨

My next planned knife will be made out of either a thick old chunk of leaf spring I have set aside, or a thick piece of O1 steel bought from a local supplier in Windsor. So it won't affect that project.
And luckily I already have the Nitro-V for the batch of knives I'll be making for my dad at some point. :thumbsup:
 
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HPD said:
Yep, but I don't want to cause a stink. They're trying so hard to not be political, but it's easy to read the "tea leaves." Here's the bottom line. The US is in fiscal and monetary trouble due to years of mismanagement. Cutting government spending and increasing taxes on somebody is the only way out of the impeding disaster. Would you rather have increased corporate taxes which will be passed onto the consumer and discourage domestic production, or would you rather have tariffs against foreign producers and lowered corporate taxes which will produce a temporary net increase in costs to American consumers but encourage domestic production which will allow us to grow out of the current morass, eventually producing higher income?
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That's some BS
A) you don't have a manufacturing base. The oligarchs off-shored everything over the last 40 years, and it's not coming back without government investment. They're just around to further loot the country
B) lowering taxes has never had the predicted benefit in terms of economic activity. Look it up, you tried it before, it didn't work
C) the mismanagement has been happening for 50 years. Cutting government funding will just make things worse; your health care system, civil infrastructure, education

Also you all are deporting the people who pick your food

The only thing that has ever helped working people's conditions is working together to push social investment. That's how you recovered from the 1930s depression (and then a bunch of you had a sook when Black people asked for a fair share)
 
No matter the politics, economy will prevail. EU will lower the cost of steel per xT to keep the sales. Final price of steel will be a little over todays so the final product price increase should not be more than a cup of coffee. You worry to much.
 
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