Use or not use mint vintage knives

I have one exception. If you are as old as the knife...use the darn thing...before you die...for the kids :-p
 
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. These five is the only ones I won't ever carry. They have been gifts from family.
 
FarmKid, those look awesome, the bone on that canoe looks really nice! I'm glad to see you're posting more pics!

I don't have any "mint" vintage knives. The ones I have are all well used with dark patinas. I've got a Schrade electricians knife in my tool bag and an Ulster scout in my car. Both of them have seen plenty of use and I will continue to use them, they work so well!
 
Stunningly good post, Rick, I agree with everything you said. Thankfully, most of the museum quality pieces, because of price, fall into hands that will preserve them.

For older knives that don't fall into the "preserve at all costs" category, regardless of value, I think you need to find your own level of peace. If it bothers you to use a $_____ knife, then don't. You spent your money on it and have a right to enjoy it as you see fit. If you get more joy out of using a $_____ knife, then have at it!
 
Thanks Confucius! It's a 1962. Dad got it for me for Christmas a few years back. My other vintage cases I carry seldom.
 
I was wondering when you'd chime in here Rick. Interesting how you used the katana as an example. I remember reading a book or article somewhere that mentioned that to fully appreciate the beauty of a well-made katana, it must be repolished every hundred years or so. For those unfamiliar with Japanese nihonto, this isn't a simple matter of rubbing some Flitz on the blade. The blade should be sent to a properly trained togishi (sword polisher). Sounds great right? Sure, except for the fact that a Japanese togishi is an extremely skilled artisan whose services are extremely expensive. Their apprenticeship is twice as long as that of a swordsmith's and the polishing process can take a few weeks.

Anyways I digress. The problem with polishing a sword according to Japanese tradition is that each time you do so you shorten the life of the blade. Japanese swords are like any other bladed implement, polishing removes material. Do it enough times and you're left with nothing more than a sword shaped piece of soft steel.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Nothing, other than the fact that it shows that no matter what we do nature will eventually claim all of our treasured blades. Despite our best efforts, rust will eventually cover and eat up those beatiful glaze and crocus finished knives. This being the case, what difference does it make if a knife fades to nothingness in five hundred years, passing from collection to collection, compared to it being used and becoming a valued family heirloom, eventually wearing out as it gets passed from father to son through the generations?

- Christian
 
This might be the subject of a separate discussion but to be quite honest the comments make me wonder if the only thing that interests most people is how an old knife can be used. Why bother photographing old knives for the old knives sticky or scanning 100s of pages for the old catalog sticky if there's really not much interest preserving the history?
 
kamagong said:
[...] Despite our best efforts, rust will eventually cover and eat up those beatiful glaze and crocus finished knives. This being the case, what difference does it make if a knife fades to nothingness in five hundred years, passing from collection to collection, compared to it being used and becoming a valued family heirloom, eventually wearing out as it gets passed from father to son through the generations?
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The difference is that, instead of one, IMO, selfish person undermining the finish and eventually, the form, of a rare and finite historical heirloom in a relatively short span, it can be preserved and shared with many people, through books, shows and the web, etc., who can then learn from and appreciate its history, aesthetics, design and finish details, etc. for centuries. Given that there are millions of recently built factory and custom alternatives, why squander the all too fragile past?

We have the benefit of living in the 21st Century, where we're literally surrounded by more manufactured consumables than we can possibly use up in ten lifetimes. We don't need to plunder the past for our tools or entertainment. We (should) have have learned my now by dint of hindsight and foresight that the fragile artifacts of our history, once allowed to fade, can never be retrieved.
 
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That's a good observation Jake. I think it's a valid one too. How many times have we heard "they don't make 'em like they used to?" It's one thing to look at a knife in a picture or behind a glass display case, it's another thing entirely to sharpen one up and use it.

I don't think it's fair to label those who would choose to use a vintage knife as short-sighted. Someone can know all about the issues involved in the use vs. preserve debate and still decide to put the vintage knife to work. Let's take this Cattaraugus wrench knife for example.

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Image by Kerry Hampton

It is entirely foreseeable that a person with the disposable income can see this knife and fall in love with it. This wrench knife is his idea of the perfect knife, and he buys it for the sole purpose of using it as his personal pocketknife. Is he short sighted if he did just that? Keep in mind that there is nothing currently made that is similar to this knife. Bone of this jigging pattern is no longer available. Production manufacturers don't even make a cheap imitation of it. I guess you can always have a custom done up, but Ken Erickson is the only maker I can think of that would be willing to even consider this. If he did take it on you'd be looking at a 5+ year long wait. Would you still think it selfish and short sighted if the wrench knife inamorata put this knife to work?

- Christian
 
Good points Jake and Rick. There are all kinds of fakes and reworks out there. If we don’t know what a knife looks like when it was made then we’re susceptible to buying something that’s not what it’s purported to be. Catalogs are a great resource, but nothing beats looking at and handling a lot of vintage knives that are in good to great shape.

I have some vintage knives that I carry and some that I won’t. There’s no guarantee my kids will want them, but I hope they end up with someone that appreciates them. Learning about the history of knives is half the fun .

There are plenty of knives out there to carry. As others have said, not very many minty ones are left.

(The shiny, over buffed knives are called “Kentucky mint,” in honor of Aycock.)

I bought this knife not because I really like Catt. knives or the pattern, but because the bone is sharp and crisp. Now I know what Catt. "Indian trail" bone is supposed to look like when it's not worn.

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I always enjoy reading your thoughts on this subject Rick. I actually happen to agree with you (darned history major!) and would preserve a mint, rare, vintage knife ever faced with this dilemma. That said, I don't share your certainty that a person who uses a vintage knife is selfish and short sighted. Whether a knife ends being used or displayed in a museum, only a select few ever get to handle and truly enjoy it. And I don't know how the limited interest that people show in a display knife compares with the ultimate pleasure a person gets from carrying and using a beautiful vintage knife that was made by a master cutler.

- Christian
 
I'll still stick buy my statement that a knife is a tool it should be used, a cutler did not make a knife and say, I hope this knife is going to be sitting on someone's shelf 80-100 years from now, it was made to be used, I love history, but I would rather be making my own. Here is another perspective, what would be the point of owning a vintage instrument and putting it in a case and never making any music? Owning a vintage record and never listening to it, or owning a vintage car and never going for a ride?
 
kamagong said:
[...]It is entirely foreseeable that a person with the disposable income can see this knife and fall in love with it. This wrench knife is his idea of the perfect knife, and he buys it for the sole purpose of using it as his personal pocketknife. Is he short sighted if he did just that? Keep in mind that there is nothing currently made that is similar to this knife. Bone of this jigging pattern is no longer available. Production manufacturers don't even make a cheap imitation of it. I guess you can always have a custom done up, but Ken Erickson is the only maker I can think of that would be willing to even consider this. If he did take it on you'd be looking at a 5+ year long wait. Would you still think it selfish and short sighted if the wrench knife inamorata put this knife to work?
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I think you may be overlooking the crux of the issue: condition. If someone just has to put a 19th Century wrench knife to work to appreciate the steel quality, heat treatment, edge geometry or whatever, why undermine a rare minty example when you can get a well used one? For every mint knife that's still in existence, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of used, sharpened, pocket-worn or patined examples out there. IMO, there's no reason to use a rare mint antique other than ego or complacency.
 
I don't knock anyone for their ideas on using versus collecting/preserving, all have merit in their different ways and you spent your hard earned money on it. You own it, go on and do what you like. I own some pretty nice knives and I use mine. Some more than others, but all at least some times. That particular pattern is a bust you before you bust it, solid user to me. I'd take good care of it and use it. YMMV. Really nice knife by the way, I'm kinda jealous.

Jon
 
Whoever was bent over a grinder for 12-14 hours a day probably didn't give much thought to how and when a knife was going to be used, but more about when his shift ended. :)

I get that knives are tools and that "we" enjoy using them more than most, but I do like seeing vintage knives that are in great condition.
 
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Hmm, interesting question. Since I don't collect vintage knives I can't really render an opinion with regards to carrying mint vintage cutlery. However, there have been posts asking about carrying very valuable/expensive knives which I think can apply to both brand new and mint condition vintage pieces. While I have a little hesitation carrying new expensive knives but do so anyway, I don't know if I would carry a vintage one.

The reason why I'm musing out loud is because of my Zippo collection, the vast majority which is locked behind glass/acrylic display cases. I would not use my metalliques, nor my titanium, nor my pin-up Zippos, some of which are quite rare. Same with my guitar and drum company advertisers. But the point is that one standard cased Zippo is identical (or nearly so) to the next, the difference is the engraved/painted/applied design or case material (Sterling, solid gold, titanium, solid copper, even steel vs. chrome plated brass). The rare metallique is the exact same lighter underneath the applique as the one banging around in my pocket right now. In most cases the value in the Zippo is in the applied artwork or advertisement, which is why a 1970's Mickey Mouse is worth $1K and a plain one from the same year is worth $20. This isn't necessarily the situation with knives.

I suppose if I had an early Case knife that was the same model as a new one I would put the vintage behind glass and use the new one. But if that early design was no longer made and that particular piece pleased me very much, I might carry it. I feel the same way about vintage watches, as I had some valuable collectors' pieces that I wore infrequently, and they ended up just sitting around as I was afraid to damage them (rare model 1960's Bulova Accutrons), they worked but are impossible to get parts for. Since I could not get any pleasure more than looking at them when taking them out of the safe, they went up for sale. In the same regard, if I owned a valuable early knife and was afraid I'd damage it by carrying it I would either put it in the safe, display it or sell it.

Going back to the carrying an expensive new knife idea, someday in the future those knives like the Case/Bose collaborations and the many beautiful custom made and limited edition knives that members here own will be worth even more money, especially if in mint condition, like a mint Scagel custom is now. So, do we even use those new, expensive knives because of their future worth?

So, the purpose of this rambling response is, "it depends". The collector market is very fickle. One Zippo that I own at one time was trading at over $1K when they appeared on that great Internet auction site. Now they are running around half that. In the last year I've acquired two that I have wanted for years and never bothered because of the high prices. Both cost me less than just one would have back in the early 2000's. Are they any less collectable, desirable or significant? I don't think so, especially since only 100 were made of one, a very small number relative to even the most collectable Zippos. Will I ever "fill 'em up and drop 'em in my pocket"? Not a chance!

Just my humble opinion as a collector of too many things...
 
I'm not overlooking condition. A mint knife is by its very definition in the best condition. If a person had a vintage knife and chose to use it as opposed to an already used one, I can understand his way of thinking. It would be analagous to choosing to drive a mint '57 Chevy Bel-Air instead of one with a perfectly functioning engine but with a peeling paint job and in need of body work.

- Christian
 
Christian, I happen to have a couple of those knives. ;) Unfortunately, there aren't many tool knives that I'd describe as mint. …and it's unlikely that Ken will be making them (I asked ;) ). But without getting caught up in the hypotheticals, I will answer your question. I think that the owner can do whatever he likes with the knife. I think it would be unfortunate if he chose to use the knife. If the guy doesn't know much about knives, his choice wouldn't surprise me much. But it does surprise me that there isn't greater interest in preserving the history in a specialized place like a forum for traditional knives.

P.S. Nice knife, Mike!
 
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i probly wouldnt use a truly mint condition old knife. and im talking 'still in the box' mint, not 'shiny, looks new'.
i actually probly wouldnt even carry a truly old but used knife except for perhaps on special occasions or something.
ive lost a few knives over the years, one of which was a schrade old timer that belonged to my wifes grandfather. wish i had left it at home and carried something else instead but such is life.
 
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