Use philosophies that annoy you...

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KennyB

Joined
Jan 19, 2010
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One of the thing that annoys me is that I so often hear people imposing their use philosophies on other people. It creates this idea that, "A knife is used only for cutting, if you use it for anything else that's abuse and you're an idiot." Of course this leads people to the conclusions like, thinner is better... Why not right? If it's just supposed to cut stuff, it would do better if it was thinner, so okay.

This isn't even what bugs me so much. It's when people start talking about knives that are of thicker stock like they're somehow "useless". Meanwhile, how much does thickness really effect sliceability? Not much in my experience, as my Case Trapper was just as slicy as my ESEE Izula. However, can I pry with the Trapper?

And there lies the rub. People immediately disregard any benefits of having a thicker stock in order to be able to pry/torque/twist the blade as if this is just "abuse" and that no person worth their salt and having know-how to use a knife should use a blade like this. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say, "Oh, this is how a knife is supposed to be used, if it can be used otherwise then it's a crappy knife."

I can take my Izula ( just an example, there's probably other knives with thick stock ) and go pry open anything I wish, and still use it to slice up all the stuff you'd slice with your thin bladed knife. It might not be quite as good at slicing as the thinner stock, but I can go and use it for more than just cutting too.

It eventually boils down to the idea of, "Well, just carry a pry bar." Which I think is a little ridiculous... For one thing, why should I just keep carrying more and more tools when a good stout knife will serve the purpose? I wonder if any Marine ever looked at his USMC Ka-Bar and said, "Well, I can't pry with this, better go get the right tool for the job." Meanwhile, something a lot of people don't realize is that knives make damn fine pry-bars due to their length--to carry something with the equivalent strength, it's like carrying around a second knife-sized hunk of steel. I mean, I have a Gerber Shard mini prybar, but there's plenty of tasks that it couldn't handle that my Izula could.

I think it gets a little out of hand sometimes sure, but for the most part I think this war against thick blades and using knives for uses other than cutting is kind of ridiculous.
 
That is all well and good, if you choose a knife that is up to the task. The other side of the coin is when people don't use common sense, break knives, and blame manufacturers for poor quality.
 
KennyB said:
One of the thing that annoys me is that I so often hear people imposing their use philosophies on other people. It creates this idea that, "A knife is used only for cutting, if you use it for anything else that's abuse and you're an idiot." Of course this leads people to the conclusions like, thinner is better... Why not right? If it's just supposed to cut stuff, it would do better if it was thinner, so okay.

This isn't even what bugs me so much. It's when people start talking about knives that are of thicker stock like they're somehow "useless". Meanwhile, how much does thickness really effect sliceability? Not much in my experience, as my Case Trapper was just as slicy as my ESEE Izula. However, can I pry with the Trapper?

And there lies the rub. People immediately disregard any benefits of having a thicker stock in order to be able to pry/torque/twist the blade as if this is just "abuse" and that no person worth their salt and having know-how to use a knife should use a blade like this. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say, "Oh, this is how a knife is supposed to be used, if it can be used otherwise then it's a crappy knife."

I can take my Izula ( just an example, there's probably other knives with thick stock ) and go pry open anything I wish, and still use it to slice up all the stuff you'd slice with your thin bladed knife. It might not be quite as good at slicing as the thinner stock, but I can go and use it for more than just cutting too.

It eventually boils down to the idea of, "Well, just carry a pry bar." Which I think is a little ridiculous... For one thing, why should I just keep carrying more and more tools when a good stout knife will serve the purpose? I wonder if any Marine ever looked at his USMC Ka-Bar and said, "Well, I can't pry with this, better go get the right tool for the job." Meanwhile, something a lot of people don't realize is that knives make damn fine pry-bars due to their length--to carry something with the equivalent strength, it's like carrying around a second knife-sized hunk of steel. I mean, I have a Gerber Shard mini prybar, but there's plenty of tasks that it couldn't handle that my Izula could.

I think it gets a little out of hand sometimes sure, but for the most part I think this war against thick blades and using knives for uses other than cutting is kind of ridiculous.
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I was involved in a discussion some time ago where I asked "what can thin blades cut that a thicker one can't, even if not as effortless". Well, I didn't get any sensible answers because the people I was discussing with tried to treat the question as a joke. My experience was that my ZT 301 could cut the same things my FFG Endura could even if it wasn't as efficient. Still separated the material though.
 
singularity35 said:
I was involved in a discussion some time ago where I asked "what can thin blades cut that a thicker one can't, even if not as effortless". Well, I didn't get any sensible answers because the people I was discussing with tried to treat the question as a joke. My experience was that my ZT 301 could cut the same things my FFG Endura could even if it wasn't as efficient. Still separated the material though.
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A chisel grind can cut things, too, yet most people hate it. It's just a matter of preference.
 
dogstar said:
A chisel grind can cut things, too, yet most people hate it. It's just a matter of preference.
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Sure, that's why KennyB said it was annoying that some people want to impose their knife use philosphy(or preference, if you will) on others. For instance, some people will declare that they have been using knives all their lives and that they're are old as methuselah and haven't yet come across an SD scenario, so all the guys who prepare for SD scenarios are just paranoid.
 
not much on a forum 'annoys' me. If I don't agree, I just move on. Heck, it's just the internet.............................:cool:
 
Mannlicher said:
not much on a forum 'annoys' me. If I don't agree, I just move on. Heck, it's just the internet.............................:cool:
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I've seen you post that a lot, good for you. :)

I just hope you're just not trying to convince yourself of that. ;)
 
People can merely state their philosophies. They only impose their philosophies if you and others choose to adopt said philosophies as your own.
 
singularity35 said:
I was involved in a discussion some time ago where I asked "what can thin blades cut that a thicker one can't, even if not as effortless". Well, I didn't get any sensible answers because the people I was discussing with tried to treat the question as a joke. My experience was that my ZT 301 could cut the same things my FFG Endura could even if it wasn't as efficient. Still separated the material though.
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It gets down to the mentality of people now days. I.e. "why would I put more effort into doing this task using a tool, when I can use another tool that will require less energy to complete it." ....... people are just lazy :rolleyes:
 
Acesn8s said:
People can merely state their philosophies. They only impose their philosophies if you and others choose to adopt said philosophies as your own.
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What about when they insist that theirs is the only correct way? I'd say they were trying to impose. :)

I do find that it is the guys who prefer thin blades who disparage the thicker blades more. I for one have uses for a thicker blade(and no, I won't go into that this time) and for a thinner blade. I also find that people who buy thick stock knives also have thin stock knives.
 
It all depends on what you personally use the knife for that will determine appropriate design parameters. I personally almost never pry with my knives even though some of them are capable of it--I just don't perform a lot of tasks that involve prying that also put me in a situation of not having access to an actual pry bar. As such I much prefer thinner blades as a general rule. A thick knife would increase performance in a category I don't need and decrease it in one that I do, so I opt for blades suite to my uses. Others like prying with their knives and don't do as much slicing as I do, and for them a thicker blade is more appropriate.

A good example of a similar issue is when people think you need crazy super steels in your pocket knives or they're junk. However, I often recommend knives like "bread and butter" CRKT models to mechanic/other blue-collar tradesmen friends because if you're going to use your knife to repeatedly cut wires up against metal objects and scrape rust off of car bodies you're going to dull ANY knife and so a blade that's quick and easy to touch up is going to be of greater advantage--and they'll roll the edge instead of chipping it.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It all depends on what you personally use the knife for that will determine appropriate design parameters. I personally almost never pry with my knives even though some of them are capable of it--I just don't perform a lot of tasks that involve prying that also put me in a situation of not having access to an actual pry bar. As such I much prefer thinner blades as a general rule. A thick knife would increase performance in a category I don't need and decrease it in one that I do, so I opt for blades suite to my uses. Others like prying with their knives and don't do as much slicing as I do, and for them a thicker blade is more appropriate.

A good example of a similar issue is when people think you need crazy super steels in your pocket knives or they're junk. However, I often recommend knives like "bread and butter" CRKT models to mechanic/other blue-collar tradesmen friends because if you're going to use your knife to repeatedly cut wires up against metal objects and scrape rust off of car bodies you're going to dull ANY knife and so a blade that's quick and easy to touch up is going to be of greater advantage--and they'll roll the edge instead of chipping it.
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Yep, use should dictate the specs of the tool. That's why I have some of both. I do find that thin knife blades can handle a lot more than what some may expect.
 
Another factor is cost. As much as I want to, not yet found a good reason why I need ZDP over 8Cr that currently serves my EDC need, and also my shaving need ... :o
 
I bought a Boker #120614 (Solingen made with a Bohler N690 3.4" long Wharncliffe-style blade.) some years ago at a great discount from a local store. I thought it might be a good slicer, as I am of the school that knives are cutting tools, due to it's somewhat hollow ground blade. It may be a decent knife to split and, gasp, even to 'pry' with, too. I don't know which is the best indicator of such use, it's 7 mm thick, that's ~.280", blade spine & tang or Boker's name for it... the 'Pry-Mate'! I have thin-sliced over-ripe grape tomatoes with mine - they curl a bit from the hollow grind.

I usually carry a Benchmade 755 MPR, a short thick moose of a folder, but today it will likely be my Boker Minos, a folder with a 3" N690 blade of 'only' 5mm sandwiched between two 4mm thick Ti sideplates. Both are sharp - neither knows it's not supposed to be a decent slicer, much less an armhair razor. I suppose I could force either into a self defender role, but my 'philosophy' on answering deadly threats suggests halting such from a longer distance with something in my pocket that is a lot louder. My guess is it has to be my age combined with my being 'out of shape', although I'm not sure of the latter... 'round' is a shape! I checked my DL - I really will be 65 in a matter of days, as if being inundated with healthcare supplemental insurance offers wasn't proof enough.

Remember - all it takes to be an internet guru/pundit is a lap top or iPad and a WiFi connection - like most fast food places have. They also have cheap/free drinks for seniors...

Stainz
 
singularity35 said:
What about when they insist that theirs is the only correct way? I'd say they were trying to impose. :)

I do find that it is the guys who prefer thin blades who disparage the thicker blades more. I for one have uses for a thicker blade(and no, I won't go into that this time) and for a thinner blade. I also find that people who buy thick stock knives also have thin stock knives.
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I have some of both also, different knives for different uses. :thumbup:
 
For me its not just use philosophies but all philosophies that bother me. I just hate it in general when anyone pushes their opinions as fact. Some people shouldnt like light knives or want light knives because they dont. IMHO the only absolute in this world is that there in fact is no absolute. And what works for one person wont always work for another. And to push a preference as an absolute is silly and really only solidifies that the person doing the pushing probably isnt as informed as they would like to think they are. If everything was to be one way, we would all like the same food, same beer and same type of companion. And if everyone had the same preferences there wouldnt be much to talk about would there? Some knives are specifically made to be able to pry as well as cut. They are made to do so and therefore if the maker intended to have it pry then its not abuse. No matter what know it all pops up preaching otherwise.
 
PURPLEDC said:
For me its not just use philosophies but all philosophies that bother me. I just hate it in general when anyone pushes their opinions as fact. Some people shouldnt like light knives or want light knives because they dont. IMHO the only absolute in this world is that there in fact is no absolute. And what works for one person wont always work for another. And to push a preference as an absolute is silly and really only solidifies that the person doing the pushing probably isnt as informed as they would like to think they are. If everything was to be one way, we would all like the same food, same beer and same type of companion. And if everyone had the same preferences there wouldnt be much to talk about would there? Some knives are specifically made to be able to pry as well as cut. They are made to do so and therefore if the maker intended to have it pry then its not abuse. No matter what know it all pops up preaching otherwise.
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Everyone is different so there really are no right or wrong answers only opinions.

Common since however is another factor when it comes to use or uses of knives and if the outcome turns out to be on the negative side then more than likely the use of the knife didn't fit with the design or the intended purpose of the design.
 
The thick blade phenomenon is a very recent development given the long history of cutting tools. Since cutting tools are designed to cut and a thicker blade and edge reduce cutting performance it is easy to see why people don't like them. This is magnified by the manufacturers and fanboys constantly pushing the "tactical" thick blade is better nonsense while ignoring the downsides. I have thick and thin blades and uses for both, but let's be honest.....at some point form does start to negate function. Airkat knives are probably a great example....they are cool looking and beefy but buy them for that reason......as cutting tools they are almost worthless.
 
Good post.^
But it's the geometry at the edge, or leading up to the edge, that counts.
 
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