Uses for the tanto

muzzleup

muzzleup

Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Messages
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I know that the tanto is the smallest of the 3 set samurie(spelling?) swords, but I was wondering if anyone knows whether or not the tanto has been used as a hunting/camping/utility knife for doing things like fuzz sticks, spliting kindling, camp cooking and other various uses that we most think of a belt knife out in the boonies?
What I have seen so far is that the tanto was used more of a personal protection concealed short sword.

I have over a dozen quite expensive tantos that I have collected but they seem to be waisted just sitting in the stands looking pretty and being put to some practical use like a good belt knife.

I know that they could not take a beating like Fallkniven, Cris Reeve, K-bar , Bob Dozier, and other tough built belt knives.

So lets see what some of you have used your tantos for.

Ciao4now
Ron :confused:
 
I wouldn't put the average "real" tanto to serious use. I would prefer a thinner blade for most things and a less potentially brittle edge for the heavy stuff.
 
The Tanto, though we might view it as a knife, was technically regarded as a sword. It's function was that of a weapon, and only a weapon.

Utilitarian jobs were performed with other Japanese knives. The small blade carried within the Tanto's Saya was the blade a Samurai would use for such tasks. I can't remember what it was called. The Saya would hold the Tanto, the small blade, and a probe tool (or what looks like a split probe tool, which were actually chopsticks. Neat, huh?).

Also, you might wish to look into Japanese-style "bowie" knives. Again, I don't remember what they were called, but they're really bitchin' looking knives. Easily identified by the squared-off, wood plank scabbard.
(http://www.kanetsune.com/assets/galleries/52/kb-114-116-logo.jpg)
 
HolyRoller said:
The Tanto, though we might view it as a knife, was technically regarded as a sword. It's function was that of a weapon, and only a weapon.

Utilitarian jobs were performed with other Japanese knives. The small blade carried within the Tanto's Saya was the blade a Samurai would use for such tasks. I can't remember what it was called. The Saya would hold the Tanto, the small blade, and a probe tool (or what looks like a split probe tool, which were actually chopsticks. Neat, huh?).
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The small blade is called a kozuka, the "probe" is a kogai, and is not always split. The hook on the end was primarily designed for removing ear wax, and if not split, it was used as a hair pin.

Please substantiate your position that the tanto was only used as a weapon.

This is from Wikipedia:

"Tantō first began to appear in the Heian period, however these blades lacked any artistic quality and were purely weapons. In the early Kamakura period high-quality artistic tantō began to appear, and the famous Yoshimitsu (the greatest tantō maker in Japanese history) began his forging. Tantō production increased greatly around the Muromachi period and then declined in the Shintō period ("new sword" period). Consequently, Shintō period tantō are quite rare. They regained popularity in the Shin-Shintō Period ("new-new sword" period) and production increased.

Tantō are generally forged in hira-zukuri, meaning that their sides have no ridge line and are nearly flat, unlike the shinogi-zukuri structure of a katana. Some tantō have particularly thick cross-sections for armor-piercing duty, and are called yoroidoshi.

Tantō were mostly carried by samurai as commoners did not generally carry them. Women sometimes carried a small tantō called a kaiken in their obi primarily for self defense."

I don't disagree with any of the above, but know from reading many Japanese history texts and even manuals from MJER history that tanto, and even wakizashi would be pressed into utility roles if the situation required it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Kohai999 said:
I don't disagree with any of the above, but know from reading many Japanese history texts and even manuals from MJER history that tanto, and even wakizashi would be pressed into utility roles if the situation required it.
Click to expand...

I did speak generally. There's an exception to every rule. I mean, when it's all you got, and the job's otta get done...

I know there were a few offbeat Nihonto actually designed with a utilitarian, secondary purpose.

In particular, I've seen a reverse-curved Tanto which I believe was described as being used mainly for collecting heads after a battle. That could could be wrong, but it's a non-martial use.

There's the occasional saw-back Wakizashi. One of which had large teeth, and I believe was actually a fish-scaler.

These are rarities. For awhile, I had a major obsession with oddball Japanese blades.
 
HolyRoller said:
I did speak generally. There's an exception to every rule. I mean, when it's all you got, and the job's otta get done...

I know there were a few offbeat Nihonto actually designed with a utilitarian, secondary purpose.

In particular, I've seen a reverse-curved Tanto which I believe was described as being used mainly for collecting heads after a battle. That could could be wrong, but it's a non-martial use.

There's the occasional saw-back Wakizashi. One of which had large teeth, and I believe was actually a fish-scaler.

These are rarities. For awhile, I had a major obsession with oddball Japanese blades.
Click to expand...

I guess what I am saying is that through history, there are VERY rare examples of katana being pressed into utility use..it is clearly a weapon, and THE sidearm weapon. I mean sure, Musashi was known to THROW a sword to gain an advantage, but Niten-Ichi Ryu is not exactly taught in most places. Because wakizashi could be carried by commoners, the Samurai have more than a few recorded events where wakizashi were used much as we use camp knives now.

For the record, going back to Kamakura to the 1960's, I have seen very few examples of tanto that can be considered anything but a knife, and fairly small knives(comparatively) at that.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The Nata is the utility/hatchet knife. The Yamagatana is the hunting knife.
 
That is a fairly recent (western-inspired) knife design. I'm talking about traditional knives from 400 years ago, or thereabouts.
 
Well some folks used them (and the waki) to open them selves up, left to right, across the abdomen, the sharply turning up the rib cage towards the heart, finally cutting the neck. your seconds blade usually came down in episode 1... G...
 
galen59 said:
Well some folks used them (and the waki) to open them selves up, left to right, across the abdomen, the sharply turning up the rib cage towards the heart, finally cutting the neck. your seconds blade usually came down in episode 1... G...
Click to expand...
Generally speaking (in my simple and muddled mind), I believe you would find a wakizashi more often related as the tool for seppuku. Bear in mind, my next would be my first but I am under the impression that the right tool for the job is not a tanto.

Cheers

GC
 
No, frequently it was a blade around 8-10 inches in length, wrapped with paper or cloth so only the first two inches or so could be used for cutting, but that was more ritualistic, battlefield seppuku was almost always with a wakizashi. Cheers. G..

"God will forgive me, that's his job." H.Heine
 
AfterTFD said:
I wouldn't put the average "real" tanto to serious use. I would prefer a thinner blade for most things and a less potentially brittle edge for the heavy stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming your not talking about the Cold Steel version of the tanto? I'm not talking about the Cold Steel show pieces but the Recon/Master Tanto's. I know a few of my Army and Marine buddies have carried Cold Steel Recon/Master Tanto's and put them to hard use in Iraq/Afghanistan .
 
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depusm12 said:
I'm assuming your not talking about the Cold Steel version of the tanto? I'm not talking about the Cold Steel show pieces but the Recon/Master Tanto's. I know a few of my Army and Marine buddies have carried Cold Steel Recon/Master Tanto's and put them to hard use in Iraq/Afghanistan .
Click to expand...

Those are knives that just get called "Tanto" because some people will buy into the hype. Naming the design after a more famous one makes for better sales.

If anything, most of what we see labeled as "Tanto" are just chisel-tip utility or fighting knives. I've never seen a Japanese Tanto with a chisel point. A more proper term for such knives would be "Americanized Tanto".
 
HolyRoller said:
Those are knives that just get called "Tanto" because some people will buy into the hype. Naming the design after a more famous one makes for better sales.

If anything, most of what we see labeled as "Tanto" are just chisel-tip utility or fighting knives. I've never seen a Japanese Tanto with a chisel point. A more proper term for such knives would be "Americanized Tanto".
Click to expand...

IMO it would be more proper to call them "American Tantos" rather than "Americanized Tanto" since they really are an American knife given a Japanese name rather than an American version of a Japanese sword.

I disagree that Cold Steel took the name of a popular blade to make it sell better. Before CS, hardly anyone in the US knew what a tanto was. CS is what made the American Tanto popular, and what made the word "tanto" popular in the US. That is why most people think of the chisel-point knife as a "tanto." The popularity of the American tanto is what paved the way for actual Japanese-style tanto (though usually made in China) to sell in the US.
 
Actually Bob Lum and Phill Hartsfield where making there version of the American Tanto before Lynn Thompson did his

I could be wrong
 
That's what I've heard, but Thompson is the one who made the American tanto popular. Production makers are more widely known than custom makers, and that was even more true in the 1980s than it is today with all the knife-related forums.
 
Kohai999 said:
The small blade is called a kozuka, the "probe" is a kogai, and is not always split. The hook on the end was primarily designed for removing ear wax, and if not split, it was used as a hair pin.

Please substantiate your position that the tanto was only used as a weapon.

This is from Wikipedia:

"Tantō first began to appear in the Heian period, however these blades lacked any artistic quality and were purely weapons. In the early Kamakura period high-quality artistic tantō began to appear, and the famous Yoshimitsu (the greatest tantō maker in Japanese history) began his forging. Tantō production increased greatly around the Muromachi period and then declined in the Shintō period ("new sword" period). Consequently, Shintō period tantō are quite rare. They regained popularity in the Shin-Shintō Period ("new-new sword" period) and production increased.

Tantō are generally forged in hira-zukuri, meaning that their sides have no ridge line and are nearly flat, unlike the shinogi-zukuri structure of a katana. Some tantō have particularly thick cross-sections for armor-piercing duty, and are called yoroidoshi.

Tantō were mostly carried by samurai as commoners did not generally carry them. Women sometimes carried a small tantō called a kaiken in their obi primarily for self defense."

I don't disagree with any of the above, but know from reading many Japanese history texts and even manuals from MJER history that tanto, and even wakizashi would be pressed into utility roles if the situation required it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Gents, If I recall correctly, I remember a text (I think it was the japanese story of "The forty seven Samurai") that stated a "Kogai" or "Kogi" was called a "hairpin", because it was used by the samurai who, after defeating an opponent in singular battle, such as a duel, would take the decapitated head as a trophy. The Kogi or Kogai was used to pierce the top-knot of the dripping head (Hence no sharpened edges, just a sharp point) in preparation for bagging and transporting same without the winner soiling his hands with the loser's gore. Just trying to help. With fraternal regards, Rick.
 
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