Using a bow in the wild.

K

Kevin the grey

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Aug 26, 2005
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This is a free for all here. (As long as decorum is maintained)

I know a fair amount about trad archery. A very little about primitive archery.
That does not transpose into hunting and survival as neatly as I would like.

Lets make a list of pros and cons. Do's and Don'ts if you prefer.

When choosing a bow stave in the wild do not over bow yourself. A very good friend of mine who looks back at me when I shave every morning popped his shoulder out of its socket by drawing too strong a bow when hunting. I was cold and miserable. I cranked up my machined monstrocity bow a few pounds instead of taking a couple of pounds off. This combined with being cold and encumbered by restrictive clothing nearly ended my hunt and has given me a pain I will have all my life.

If You can, choose a couple of bow staves. One you think is just right and one a couple of pounds less. The bow wood may loosen up a bit over time and be too light for you. There is a trick called piking your bow which can add a couple of pounds back on.

I'm gonna go have supper. Feel free to add to this. If you have a couple of questions we have a few archers here with a lot of practical experience.
 
I did a little research on primitive bows back when my daughter was expressing an interest in archery.

One thing that caught my attention was that most primitive bows have very light pull weights. It struck me that most of them were meant for taking small game, nothing much larger than rabbits.

Heavy pull weights seem meant for war (longbows) or big game hunting (deer and larger), but for general hunting, a small, light, short bow seemed to be favored by primitive hunters.

Andy
 
OK, now let's suppose someone tells me what kind of wood to use for the Bow? What's next?

I'm not going to play ignorant here, because I am actually very ignorant, so I don't have to pretend.

1. Can I used Paracord/550 for the bow string?
2. arrows, how long does it take, and how much skill to make an arrow in a survival sitaution with limited tools?
3. Green wood? Dead wood? How long should this bow be?
4. At best, what kind of range and power will this work of art have?

My USMC buddy learned how to make primitve weapons and he says he can build a pretty good makeshift crossbow, could a crossbow be viable?

Educate me. In the mean time I'll go googlin and see what i can stir up for my own edge-u-makashun.
 
Arrow ? put the blunt shaft on your chest. Reach out with both hands and touch fingertips on the shaft as far as you can go. Add one inch for safety.

ANy cord that does not stretch and will take the strain will do. I do not know if paracord has a lot of stretch. Some coards that stretch can have the stretch taken out of them.

A lot of venetian blind cord is very good . It is thin and can be braided for a stronger string.

Ash is good,hickory is better. I find hickory harder to work. Hickory takes sharper tools. Ash works great.

The bow should be as wide as your armspan. The longer it is the more mistakes you can make and get away with it.

Seasoned wood is best. Green works. Green ash works well.

Crossbows especially primitive ones are less efficient ,take a lot more work to make,are noisierand will break more. A bow really only has two parts. Stick and string. A good survivalist will always have a second bow made or in the works. At least one extra string. I have three for my bow. One in art sinew, one in irish linen and actually two in dacron. You want a dozen to 18 arrows. Hunting you only need a few unless going after small game.

If you are reasonably strong and can pull a 55-60 pound bow I would say you are limited more by accuracy than strength. If a guy in the woods can hit something beyond 30-45 feet in a survival situation I would be impressed.

My bow is 45 pounds. I would consider that an absolutely bare minimum with 50 pounds a better choice.

You should be able to draw and hold your bow without shaking for ten seconds. You have to be able to do this when you are bitchy cold,tired and have warm clothing on.
 
SkunkWerX said:
OK, now let's suppose someone tells me what kind of wood to use for the Bow? What's next?

I'm not going to play ignorant here, because I am actually very ignorant, so I don't have to pretend.

1. Can I used Paracord/550 for the bow string?
2. arrows, how long does it take, and how much skill to make an arrow in a survival sitaution with limited tools?
3. Green wood? Dead wood? How long should this bow be?
4. At best, what kind of range and power will this work of art have?

My USMC buddy learned how to make primitve weapons and he says he can build a pretty good makeshift crossbow, could a crossbow be viable?

Educate me. In the mean time I'll go googlin and see what i can stir up for my own edge-u-makashun.
Click to expand...

In Ray Mears Bushcraft, Aboriginal Britain Episode, Mears gives a modern longbow maker some primitive flint tools, and the gentleman shows how to make a primitive long bow. Meanwhile, Mears demonstrates arrow construction, again with natural materials and primitive tools.

Certainly not an exhaustive explanation of the bow-making process, but maybe a good beginners place to start, not to mention that the episode, on the whole, is one of the better Mear's ones IMHO where the survival/bushcraft advice outweighs the usual entertainment/historical value.

Drop me an email if you'd like more info.
 
OK Kevin, so far so good.

And please don't think I am setting you up, I am trying to frame-up the whole idea of a wilderness made bow & arrow for food procurement.

OK, ash and hickory. Both strong woods, got it.
What if you are in a part of the wilderness where there is no ash or hickory?
Not tyring to be difficult, but, we need to consider this could be anywhere in NorthAmerica, I think that is fair. I have one hickory tree on my property, maybe 5" diameter. I treasure it, and wouldn't cut it down on a whim, but it's just to show that there are places where alternate woods may need to be substituted. Did i read somwhere that Yew makes a good bow?
What about maple? I've got maple, and wild cherry. Locust?

Is there some kind of "spring" test, to test a piece of wood?
Are we talking heartwood, or just a good stout limb wittled down?

What tools would be helpful?

I am trying to nail down the Bow part, a general "path" or thought process to follow, then we can move to the arrow.

I realize someone could write a 200 page book on this topic, so, I certainly don't expect we will hit the molecular level of detail here on the forum.

Any additional thoughts and tips would be helpful.
 
I'm guessing that due the the forums topic of survival we are talking about a survival bow? or do we have time to scrape and rasp in the garage?

Elm makes a nice bow as does White Oak, Iron wood(Hop Hornbeam)Cherry,Osage(if in your area)Yew(in the northwest), Birch and maple(if you must), Juniper(Ishis bow)...
As Kevin has said, Ash and Hickory make a dandy bow too. What I try to rember is " A bow is only a bent stick to shoot a REALLY staight stick". In a survive or die situation don't get to hung on the bows "perfectness" try to make good arrows.


Yikes, I'm late for work, again.
 
In a true survival situation you might have better luck hunting with an atlatl. Easily whittled, and the motion to throw the dart is almost intuitive. They predated traditional bows buy a few centuries. Google it, they're pretty cool.
 
mewolf Yikes said:
mewolf

REPLY: Is the circus far from your house? :D


Skunkwerx let me say before I forget that a braided string is infinitely stronger than a single cord. You could make braided dental floss stronger than paracord.


As far as making a bow from a tree stave? I am almost as much a novice as you. Doc has a link in the slinging thread to Tim Baker's green wood bow.
I would not repost it here without asking him first.

This man has made bows from discarded,awful crooked christmas trees. Just to prove it could be done.

You can make a bow from a bamboo garden stake.

As Mewolf says the arrow is much more important. If you notice, no matter how crooked the bow is the bowstring is straight. The arrow should be as straight as your line towards the fridge for your first beer.

You have cherry trees on your property? Son, I am moving in. :p

Also as Doc says. Practice makes perfect. Make tim Bakers "easieast bow in the world" before making greenwood bows. I will post the instructions for that bow later today. You can make that in an afternoon with a three dollar piece of ash from the lumberyard. Red oak works as well. What is an afternoon for some folks is a week for others. Thats why its best to make a couple at home before making one in the wild. If you have plenty of time on your hands I would ignore this and go lop down a sapling of the aforementioned woods. Cherry makes pretty , very heavy arrows. I think it is a wood better suited for backed or laminated bows.

Maple is feasible depending upon the variety. There is an old saying I just made up " You can't learn to make bows without breaking a couple."

There is another saying that is more accurate. "The most efficient bow is one that is nine tenths broken."

For tools A drawknife would be great. You can make an indian drawknife easily from an old butcher knife. This is a good tool in the wild. I will tell you how later on today.
Click to expand...
 
Here is a copy of Doc's post about Tim Baker's "Survival bow" I'LL tell you how to make an Indian drawknife at the end of the instructions.

"An initial survival bow would surely be of green or dead wood, both weak in their own way.

Here's a way to store the greatest amount of energy/get highest possible cast from such wood. It's also the quickest way to make a bow:

Select a sapling or branch with a pronounced natural arc about equal to that of a braced bow. Cut to length, remove any branchlets, and the bow is finished. String it and shoot it.

At brace height a bow has used up about half of its ability to bend--the tips have advanced about half as far as they will at full draw. So, much of the wood's ability to do work is not available to the arrow. A highly deflexed bow makes all of its stored energy available to the arrow. So even though the bow will not be as efficient per pound of draw weight it will shoot an arrow faster. This because it can be pulled to such higher weight before breaking.

A deer-killing bow could be had in just a few minutes. The string and arrow are the time takers. But even here there are shortcuts."

How to make an Indian Drawknife.

A drawknife is not essential to make a bow. It makes most bows easier to make and possibly better and more powerful.

As you know a drawknife usually has two handles. A ten inch butcher knife has one handle. Two handles gives you much more control and strength.

Just about any flea market will yield up a kitchen knife or two in the fifty cent range. A butcher knife works best for this. I think you would want an eight inch blade though you can get away with a little less.

All you need beside this is about a twelve inch piece of good solid hardwood branch and some wire, stout cord or sinew. Birch works good. Whatever you have works better than what you don't have. You want it to be at least 1 inch in diameter. A little bigger than a good sized screwdriver handle.

What you have to do is split the end of the birch branch about three inches down. You can even use the butcher knife to do this. Support the branch well in the upright position. You can baton the butcher knife with another length of wood. Make sure you keep a good hold of the butcher knife.

Once you have it battoned down to about three inches. Take it back out. Then reinsert it in almost the same position. Have the tip of the blade
just visible at the end of the split. This will give you more or less a V shape with the blade edge as one inside leg of the V.

If the knife has only forced open the split about a quarter inch then it is fine. . Now comes the tricky part. You have to carefully and tightly wrap the wire over the split end. You are trying to close that split and create a block so that the knife cannot slip out the end. I would secure the butcher knife and handle in something while I did this. You do not have to, it just makes it easier and safer. If youWrap the wire both at the end of the split and neaear the knife it will be that much stronger and safer.

If you don't have wire you can use good tough cord,sinew or even a long shoelace. It is evident the wire is best as it is easier for a beginner to create tension on the split and thereby pinch the knife in the split. You could also wrap wire around the end of the split near the blade edge. This will make the split stronger and not proceed much further. Do this without the blade in the split.

You now have a knife with two handles. It is mostly used by securing the bow and shaving off wood by drawing it towards you. This will take a fair amount of practice. When the blade becomes dull try to sharpen it only on one side. This will more or less create a single bevel. To me this allows the knive to shave wood off easier and dig in less.

Drawing it is not as easy as a drawknife. the blade will be at a slight angle and the handles will be at a slight angle. It still works great. You can shape a bow,hawk,spear or axe handles and quite a few other tasks.

Your knife blade is going to play in the split a bit. This will eventually loosen up the wire and compress the sides of the split. Even if the knife is a bit loose you can still use it by just exerting a little outward pressure on the birch handle.

If the blade is a little loose you can also take the knife out to sharpen it or use it for different purposes.
 
This is Tim Baker's instructions for a goldern easy bow to make.

YOUR FIRST WOODEN BOW
Following is a 40-50lb design that is easy and quick to tiller, is durable, accurate and fast, and costs about six dollars to make.

This bow is the length of your finger-tip to finger-tip wingspan. Its side-view shape is that of an English-tillered longbow. This design’s grip is part of the working limb itself, making the bow easy to layout and easy to make. It stores more energy than shorter bows, draws with little stack, and is more stable and accurate than most. It may have a larger number of good features than any other design. These instructions call for a lumberyard hardwood stave. With such a stave it’s possible to read this in the morning and be shooting your bow the same afternoon. Not likely, but possible.

If you don’t have access to such lumber do this: Cut a straight hardwood tree, split it down to four-inch wide wedges, take the bark off without damaging the wood surface. With saw or hatchet reduce the stave to your wingspan plus a few inches. Reduce it to two-inches wide from end to end, 1” thick at the grip, ¾” at midlimb, and 5/8” at the nocks. Set it horizontally in the warmest, driest part of your house and wait a month. Allow air to move freely over all its surfaces.

Selecting a lumber stave Use any of the medium-weight or heavier hardwoods. White ash, rock maple, hickory, pecan, mulberry, red or white oak, yellow or white birch, black walnut, etc. Seleect a board whose face displays almost perfectly straight ring lines, with no meanders, islands or kinks. Pay no attention to ring lines on the side of the board; they can be misleading; they don’t need to run straight. Although on the rare perfect board ring lines will run straight on both sides and back. Viewed from its butt end, the board’s rings can be flat or angle through the board. Beginners should avoid boards having vertical ring lines. You will likely have to look through 50 or more boards to find a sufficiently straight-ringed stave.

Tools: A hatchet and a rasp are all that’s absolutely needed. But a spokeshave and coarse and medium rasps make the work faster and easier. A block plane is helpful if used carefully. A bandsaw saves about two hours of roughing out.

Front-view layout: With a sharp pencil and a straightedge draw the bow 1 3/8” wide from midlimb to midlimb. From there draw a straight taper to ½” nocks. Reduce the stave to these dimensions. Don’t stray past the line. Create smooth, square sides. Smooth out the slight angle created where the midlimb begins its taper toward the tips.

Side-view layout Draw these lines on both sides of the stave: Let the center six-inches be 3/4” thick. Moving toward the nocks, let the next two inches taper to 5/8 then to 9/16” at midlimb, then to ½” at the nocks.

Reduce the stave to those dimensions. Don’t stray past the lines. Let thickness changes be smooth and gradual. Remove the wood from one side of the belly at a time, with the tool at a slight angle, such that when both sides are done a slight crown will have been created along the center of the belly. Then remove the crown. It’s important to reduce belly thickness this way. Otherwise at some point you’ll dip below the line on the opposite side and ruin the bow. This method also averages out any errors of reduction. It’s also easier than trying to remove full-width wood.

As you remove wood down to the pencil lines frequently sight along the length of the limb from a very low angle and make sure your work is smooth and uniform, with no dips or waves or dings. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF BOWMAKING--if thickness taper is smooth and gradual it’s difficult to break a bow.

Narrow the belly side of the grip just enough to cause a nocked arrow to rest square against it. Do this on both sides of the grip. Round all corners of the grip.

Tillering: Cut string nocks with a rattail file or similar, then string the bow with a slightly slack string. Set the center of the grip on one end of a tillering stick--a 30” one-by-three board or similar--and place the string in a notch cut into that board, causing the bow to bend about five inches. Lean this rig against a wall then back up and inspect the curve of your new bow.

The shape you are seeking should not be part of a circle, but more the shape of a satellite dish antenna—an only slightly bending grip, with each portion bending slightly more than the last as you move from grip to mid outer limb. Elliptical tiller. The last ten inches or so bend should be a bit stiff, with less bend than midlimb.

It would be good to draw this shape on paper and have it ready to refer to while tillering..

If your bow does not take this shape, or if the limbs are not curving equally, make pencil marks on the belly where the limbs are too stiff. Remove wood from these stiff areas, first on one side of the belly, then the other, then remove the slight crown created. Do this with long sweeping strokes, creating no dips, waver or dings, frequently sighting along your work, as above. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF BOWMAKING.

When the curve finally suits you brace the bow about five-inches high with a proper-length string and inspect it again. Mark any stiff portions and reduce them as above. When content with the curve draw the bow to half its intended draw weight, measured by your best guess or a scale. Set the bow on the tillering stick at this length of draw and mark any stiff areas and remove as above. Re-check the tiller, re-mark, remove wood, etc. until perfect curvature is reached.

Now draw the bow to full draw weight. If full weight is reached at, say, twelve-inches of draw you need to remove medium amounts of wood all along the bow’s length. Do so by above methods, check for proper curve on you tillering stick. Correct where needed.

Again draw to full weight, now at possibly fifteen-inches of draw. From this point on remove only paper thin amounts of wood at a time. Pull to full draw weight after each curve check, setting the string into ever farther notches on the tillering stick as draw length increases. But only for a few seconds at a time. Once within five inches or so of full draw inspection time should drop to just a second or two.

This process of drawing to full weight after each tiller check--Jim-Hamm tillering--insures that you never come in under intened draw weight, the most common failing of new bowmakers.

Continue this process until about one inch short of intended draw length. Smooth all surfaces to your taste, slightly round the corners, and you’re done. The bow will settle right into its intended weight.

If using hickory, pecan or rock maple 50lbs is a safe weight. Redoak or ash or elm will be safe at 45lb. If birch or black cherry stay at 40lb. As your tillering skill improves these weight can rise several pounds.

When tillering is near complete, and if the tips are straight—causing the braced string to sit centered over the grip--narrow the last ten-inches of outer limb down to 3/8” nocks. This softens any hand shock and increases cast. If the string is slightly off center narrow the tips only on the offending side. This will bring to string back toward center.

Nock the arrow just above the center of the grip. The arrow will fly more accurately with one limb or the other as the top limb, but this may change over the life of the bow.
 
CONGRATS TO KEVIN ON 4000 POSTS!! I looked at that number and saw it was an EVEN 4000.

[balloons and confetti fall from forum ceiling]

"You have cherry trees on your property? Son, I am moving in. "
They are wild, more like Mulberry/ChokeCherry, but same family.
Down here they grow like weeds, as does the locust.

I have 2 big Choke Cheeries to cut down, each will yield a couple cord of wood. I might try resawing them into useable lumber with my chainsaw/lumbermill attachment. for the treehuggers, they are rotting at the bottom and I fear for the bird and squirrels' nests up in the tree.
I'll be certain to put these trees out of their arbor-spiritual tree misery.

Wow, I'm 46 yrs old and Kevin calls me 'Son'. Go figure. ;)
 
Wow, I'm 46 yrs old and Kevin calls me 'Son'. Go figure.

It doesn't mean you are young. It means I feel old. :grumpy: :D

4000 posts? Wow I sure do talk a lot.

If those are gnarly trees you are going to have a gnarly bow. One of my buddies has a bow that looks like a snake. Its got side to side waves of at least half an inch. It shoots great. You just have to be pretty darn experienced.

Knots especially are an issue. They do not weaken a bow. It is when you cut into one that it weakens the bow. It is hard to make a bow with knots in it without having to shave into knots.

I recommend a board bow and a tree stave bow. When you get tired of one you can work on the other. Jf you come to a problem you can't fix then you can work on the other and find help for your problem.

I am making my first stave bow with a hatchet. We can learn together.
First persons bow that breaks? The other guy buys the beer.

I'm using an elm stave. This will be a gnarly one . It has a few knots in it.
 
At home I wouldn't have any hesitation about building a bow.
I'm a woodworker, I can dry lumber, resaw it on my bandsaw, do wood laminating, joint it, plane it...etc.

My issue is definitely more of a Wilderness survival one, making a food procuring bow, in the wild, with maybe a decent fixed blade, an SAK, and perhaps a Leatherman or Gerber multi-tool. And, if, following the proper guidance, do a good job, will it be able to produce some food before the maker succumbs of starvation?

here is another wy to look at it... You are in the wilderness, you tend to Shelter, Fire, water. Your thought turns to food.
How long, in days or hours, do you think it might take to build a reasonable bow and arrow set, ...one good enough to take small game?

Stalking and hunting skill aside, just how long to build.
 
SkunkWerX, In the Traditional Bowyers Bible (I think vol 3 for this), it walks through making a bow from a green sapling using traditional tools (rock hatchet, scraper, whatnot).

From what I have been reading, most woods have been used to make bows, the difference is something like Pine will need to be wider and longer with a lighter draw weight.

I am trying to get to making my first selfbow now, so I am not an expert by any stretch. Would be fun to try a survival bow with nothing but your PSK and what you make in the environment. What would you add to your PSK to make it easier?

--Carl
 
If you follow Docs and Tim Baker's advice it would take you less than an hour.

Wood selection is a separate issue.

Arrows and string are also iffy.

Let us say you bring the string with you. It would take up little room and could even be made beforehand. We'll get into that last.

I'll post a little quote on making primitive arrows. The points could also be brought with you. You could make two or three from one flea market used knife.

I'll see ya in a bit.
 
Kevin the grey said:
If you follow Docs and Tim Baker's advice it wiuld take you less than an hour.

Let us say you bring the string with you. It would take up little room and could even be made beforehand. We'll get into that last.
Click to expand...

OK cool, now we are getting somewhere, I know i could research this and find answers, and read books, etc.
Part of my tact here, is to ask the questions publicly, in order that others may see the thought processes and where we are going with this.

1 hour, impressive! Kevin, I agree, assume the string is a bring along.
When i say Paracord i mean 550 cord, with the 7 strands inside.
They will shave some stretch to them, but, it may work in our favor, as when they are wetted, they shrink, and do so permanently.
I envision takeing 3 or 4 of the internal strands, twisting them with one another , tiyng the ends and heating. Then stringing the bow. afterward, once the bow is flexed for the first few times, carefully wetting the string, so that it draws a little tighter as the strands shrink.

OK, arrows. Making straight shooting shafts?????
 
http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/shafts.html

This is the site of a man well known in the primitive archery community. George Tsoukalas is quite the guy. As helpful as you could want. You will have to scroll to the bottom and hit home page. This will give you the list of archery possibilities.

He makes serviceable primitive arrows. His site is set up with headings relating to just about all the subjects we can come up with.

Let me make it clear. I would not think of making a bow in the wild unless I had at least made a couple at home. The whole kit and caboodle. Arrows points,strings and tools.

You need this to understand how to get the most out of that tree trunk bow you are going to make. This bow will be a dog. It will be heavy,fairly hard to be precise with and shake in your hand like your old aunt Minny when you shoot it.

Arrows are of primary importance. Again I would have made dozens at home before trying to make some in the bush. Selecting straightening pointing,nocking and fletching them will take you a coon's age unless you know what you are doing.

I have seen a guy take a bow similar to this and have six arrows all touching each other at twenty five feet. Because he knew what he was doing.

I would not think of hunting with a primitive bow unless I thought I could get to within 30 feet of a deer.

I would have my woodland skills in general at a high level. It doesn't give you much downtime to make arrows if you are shivering trying to stay warm at night.

If you were in that poor shape with an unfamiliar bow you wouldn't have much of a chance.

As you are a woodworker then you are the perfect candidate for this.

I would have a greenwood bow and a stave seasoning. I would have some crappy arrows made and some shafts seasoning/straightening.

I do not know about taking paracord apart and using it. Definitely this is a try at home before you find out it breaks on your second shot with your last arrow on your only shot at a deer.
 
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